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Boardriding Maui CS Bar Review (no chicken loop or leash)

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herbert
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Boardriding Maui CS Bar Review (no chicken loop or leash)

Postby herbert » Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:42 am

This is a bit of a combo of an overview, a review, and a sharing of how I use the Boardriding Maui Cloud Connection System....that is, the bar designed for the BRM Maui Cloud kites. I ordered one as soon as they became available and have used it in 7 sessions. Obviously it works with the Cloud kites. I used it with my RRD kites and it worked perfectly with them also. I am no expert. I am intermediate at best. So in my case I didn't feel it would be right to post a review without having used it at least a half dozen times. I don't think I could not have really spoken decently to the subject after one use.

The website if you are curious:

http://boardridingmaui.com/connection-system.html
......

I had too much free time, and it got pretty long, so I put my summary up up front:


A safer system because:
Less things to catch a kite line on which would screw up de-power, flag or release....risking injury or ....
Full de-power within reach of throw range (even those with shorter arms).
Single front line flagging.
One single quick release lets whole kite go (with option but without need to flag first)
Obligatory practice emergency release each session, as that is the mechanism for routine disconnect.
Both flagging and emergency release up close and in front.

Other nice features:
Really light.
No dangling leash. No leash period.
Can eliminate hook from spreader bar...if you want. (Good if you sleep face down while wearing a harness)
Handle cover glued AND stitched on.

Challenges:
You must learn to wrap your lines differently. (But once you do, you won't need to completely walk and separate your lines before each session).

Downside:
Cannot ride unhooked. I suppose somebody will try to figure this out, but I don't see it. Not really a downside for me, as my unhooked riding has all been unintentional.
No sliding stopper. (I actually consider the absence of a sliding stopper to be a positive safety feature for me...and with a little finesse you can spin the bar fine to undo the lines after a kite loop)

The details:

There is no chicken loop. There is no leash. There is no swivel. There is no donkey dick (I really wanted to be able to stop saying that...now I can). There are no flared plastic handle ends to roll up the lines around when done kiting. There is no strap for trim adjustment on the fly. There are no giant plastic accordion zig zaggy things running up the steering lines from the bar ends. There are no oh-shit handles and rings.

The material wrapped around the bar is glued and stitched like a sports car steering wheel rather than the usual glued on rubber. The bar itself is round....not oblong, teardrop shaped, no bumps.....simply round. Neon green left, white right. (Cloud kiters know the left steering line attachment on the kite is labelled neon green). Left steering line end is also labelled neon green. The words "Boarding Maui" are embroidered on the green side only. It is subtle but after some use, when you hold the bar without looking at it, you can tell by feel that you are holding it with the correct orientation, green in left hand. And it feels wrong if you are holding it wrong.

The flying and steering lines are 20 meters long. The bar is 22 inches (56 cm) wide and the steering lines are set 21 inches (53 cm) apart.

The bar and lines alone weigh 460 grams. The entire setup with flagging and complete release assemblies weighs 508 grams. (As a comparison, my Slingshot Compstick bar and lines alone weigh 1050 grams and the entire setup with chicken loop assembly and leash weighs 1455 grams.) Take away my spreader hook and I'm now kiting carrying 1047 gm (2lb 5oz) less hardware.

Photo for comparison:

P1020390.jpg
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There are short and very thin tubular floats (not the thicker type seen on most other bars) running a several inches up from where the steering lines (adjustable knots) simply attach, wrapped and tied to the bar near the ends. Though metal, the bar itself floats.

Photo of bar hooked up (with option of removing spreader bar hook):

P1020402_2.jpg
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The flying lines come together 70cm (27.5 inches) above the sheeted in bar where a ring attaches to one flying line, while the other flying line passes though that ring. The ring stops outward movement of the bar, giving an effective "throw" range of 27.5 inches. (My RRD and Slingshot bars have 17.5 to 18 inch throws). I am able to easily use the entire 27.5 inches of throw because I can sheet in quite close to the spreader bar...(more on that later).

The core of the system consists of a 1 inch diameter ring that sits a few inches out from your spreader bar when you are flying the kite. The flying lines pass through the center bar hole One flying line attaches permanently to the ring. The other flying line attaches to the ring via a hinged folding pin held in place with a push away quick release ball (outer ball). While flying the kite, push this ball away from you, the line releases, and the kite flags out on the other single flying line.

See photo below:
P1020404_2.jpg
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On the rider side of the ring is a single line that attaches via a folding pin held in place by a quick release ball (inner ball). Pull that quick release ball toward you.....bye-bye everything. Yes, one quick release let's it all go, as opposed the two quick releases for traditional bars. No need to flag prior to emergency full release. You habituate to the complete kite release quickly because that is how you attach yourself every time you kite and un-attach yourself when finished kiting. In other words, you practice complete emergency release every session. Not unexpectedly, when you reach down, in an emergency, you can feel both balls with one hand simultaneously (That is always my first reflex in an emergency). Push to flag....Pull to abandon the kite.

See photo below:

P1020405_2.jpg
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As with any good quick release, the quick release balls are easy to effect release intentionally but would but hard to release unintentionally. A very small bungee keeps the ball in place. Friction from the pin and line will further hold it if the bungee failed. But there is no increased tension under load, it releases smoothly with push or pull with little or heavy tension on the lines.

The line going from you to the ring has a loop for a lark's head attachment. This is for attachment to one of four different knots....on a line that comes off your spreader bar hook (or spreader bar directly, if you have no hook).

To use the setup, you lark's head connect a 4 knotted dyneema line to your spreader bar. You leave it (and the line that's on it) when you disconnect the kite. It has a series of 4 knots spaced about 2.5 cm apart. You choose one of the knots to loop the complete quick release ball/line to. You generally leave this attached also when finished kiting. You just pull the complete quick release ball to separate from the flying lines. Regarding the knotted line, you should attach it to your spreader bar hook. You can connect it in a way that makes the first knot pretty close to you. But I would not attach it to the spreader bar itself, lest the hook interfere with release functions. UNLESS....you do what I did....cut off the spreader bar hook. I cut and ground them and left small smoothed bumps that would prevent the loop line from sliding. (I found you can also run a couple of layers of duct tape around the spreader bar and the line will dig into it and resist sliding side to side.) The advantage to attaching directly to the spreader bar is that the fully sheeted in position can be closer to you. (By the way, place the Cloud on its wingtip on the water, let go of the bar, hold the ring and outer ball, activate the quick release inner ball....and you can just hold it there in you hand...the kite will stay there, well behaved. Then pass to another kiter (who has a Cloud Connection System setup on their spreader bar).

A minor detour....I like no hook because I have tangled kite lines on it before. And that goes for donkey dick, the accordion/bellows looking things steering lines come out of on most bars, double plastic hooks on each bar end for line wrapping....I mean those are actually meant to catch and hold kite lines, right?....anyway...my personal editorial....I like that this setup has way less than traditional bars do to inadvertently (and sometimes disastrously) catch kite lines.

So...you choose a knot position based upon where you want the different bar positions to be relative to your body. By bar positions, I refer to the following positions: Sheet in to stall (hard as it is to stall the kite), sweet spot, moderate power...major depower. So you just shift everything closer or further from your body by choosing the knot...on the beach, before you launch. 17 meter kite...on the windier side for the given kite...you have very short arms...you like to kite mostly with your elbows pretty flexed: choose the closest knot. 7 meter kite, you like your elbows more extended most of the time, it is a relatively low wind for the given kite....choose a further out knot. You have to figure out what you like. You might choose a knot and never change it. In any case...extend your elbows fully or let go of the bar...either way....the angle of attack is very low and my RRD kites and Cloud kites are all absolutely maximally de-powered. (In the case of the my kites... sheeted out in a squall, my 17m Cloud will pull less than my 13.5 RRD Vision).

So, how is it without "on the fly" trim position adjustment? Works great. Most especially as I use a waist harness (which can give me less range compared to a seat harness)....when using a traditional chicken loop to hook setup, sheeted in, my bars are about 8.5 to 9.5 inches from the spreader bar. With the BRM on the closest knot, it is now 4.25 inches. That gives me 4 to 5 inches more throw, 4 to 5 inches more sheet in/sheet out range. That is a real advantage for people with shorter arms. So, the bar throw gives me all the trim I need....and plenty more. This is the case with both my Cloud and RRD kites (with which previously I was so often playing with the trim adjustment since the wind here is so wildly variable. This all can take a little getting used to. With early uses, you might find it to be more familiar to use a further out knot that mimics your traditional bar position relative to your body when fully sheeted in. That way the kite flying will feel about the same to your arms...and to your muscle memory. But to really take advantage of the system, it is ideal that the fully sheeted in position be measurably in closer than it was with your other bar. You will quickly get used to it (I'm old and I did). And should it get quite windy for the size kite you have up....or perhaps a squall comes...then you have that remarkable level of immediate de-power with a quick arm extension. I don't miss the trim straps. Trimming the kite on the fly with the bar movement is much faster than changing trim position with a trim straps.

I did some specific comparisons of my RRD, Slingshot, old Naish and BRM Cloud CS. In actual use setup, how much can I lower the angle of attack...that is, how much can I lengthen the steering lines relative to the flying lines? (How much can I de-power the kite in a squall?). This is just specific for me, my waist harness and my (long) arms. With the RRD and Slingshot with the trim line maximally pulled for de-power and the bar fully out (it stops before my arms are fully extended), I get less de-power, less lowered angle of attack than I get with the Cloud CS by simply fully extending my arms. My old Naish has no stopper and I can always fully extend my arms, even trim pulled way in. With that bar I have to pull the trim (below the bar) in about a foot (2 to 1 trim line) and fully extend my arms to effect the amount of angle of attack that I get by just extending my arms with the Cloud CS. If I pull that Naish trim strap in more than a foot...the Naish now has more de-power. (And a long dangling trim strap). Again, having the full trim range always immediately is sweet.

This all worked for me pretty immediately. But I am decidedly low intermediate at best. And if something doesn't feel right immediately to me, I figure I should adapt. I suppose if you are the kind of rider who is very frequently adjusting your trim strap during most sessions, then you will need to adjust your habits to enjoy the Cloud CS. If you choose not to change that habit, you won't like the it and should stick a traditional setup. But if you take some time with it, I think it is very rewarding. I am now used to being able to sheet in much closer to my body and doing all the trim adjustment with the bar and don't think I want to go back to the old way. It feels much more "in control" to me now. I like being able to actually adjust where that sheeted in position is now. I can change it depending on the kite I use and the wind speed. Very quickly it has come to feel way more natural and the old setups feel kind of handicapping for me. My arm degree of extension is just right and comfortable with the kite trimmed to the sweet spot.

This whole setup is kind of akin to a racing bike...no fenders, no kickstand, no mud flaps. So, without those double hooked ends that ?all other bars have, you have to wind your lines differently. When finished kiting, you walk to the bar toward the rear of kite and lay it down. You remove the two center lines holding the ends side by side....then loop the right (white) steering line over them, then loop the left (green) steering line over them last. Kept in that position, you won't need to separate four 20 meter lines again. Put the looped together four line ends on one end of the bar, held with the little bungee. Then you wrap the lines (there is a video on the website), just 10 meters worth, ending up wrapping with 4 loops at the midpoint of the lines. To set up, reverse the process. Start 10 meters from the kite, unwinding as you approach the rear of the kite. Before disconnecting the four connected ends from the bar...walk back shaking out the the lines lightly separating 4 to the left and 4 to the right until you reach the loops where each of the fours lines folded. They shake out super easily. Now, take off the looped together fours ends from the bar. Doing it without ever passing the looped together line end between any lines, attach the lines to the kite (reverse the order), and you are ready to go. Be careful. And look carefully before you launch. Disconnecting and wrapping is maybe a little faster than with a regular bar method. Unwinding and connecting seems to take me about 1/3 the time. This is what a wrapped bar looks like after ...after a few practice tries:
P1020407_2.jpg
P1020407_2.jpg (78.36 KiB) Viewed 12021 times

I'll be curious to hear what others who have tried the system think.

dhw

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Re: Boardriding Maui CS Bar Review (no chicken loop or leash

Postby ronnie » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:39 am

It looks very very simple. Will people believe that you can ride like that?

The bar in action.


Release systems.


Wrapping/unwrapping the bar.


Riding without using a stopper.


Questions I have:-

What difference does the light weight make (if any) when using the bar?

Can you alter the distance between the rear lines on the bar easily?

With the 17m kite, if the wind goes up and down a lot (not just gusts) do you really not miss having on-the-fly trimming?

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Re: Boardriding Maui CS Bar Review (no chicken loop or leash

Postby herbert » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:41 am

Whether the light weight makes a difference? I am not sure I noticed a difference with the RRD 13.5 to be honest. The Cloud is a lighter and more quickly responsive kite...so it just feels like it matches somehow. I understand that we are not talking about a lot of weight here either way, so it might be easy to just imagine differences. But as a percentage weight change, it is huge, and so little input can turn the Cloud so fast....then it feels as though you can sense the movement in from the lines...to the bar...ie. feel kite position and movement faster. But maybe I am imagining this part. Just not sure yet honestly.

Rear line length adjusts in a minute...slide up float, move up or down a knot.

Miss on the fly trimming when using 17? This is where I had my greatest doubt. I mean, moving the bar two inches on this bar moves the flying lines two inches like any bar, right? And having full sheet in closer to the spreader bar will feel awkward, trying to pull it so close to the body, right? But it turns out to be the opposite. I would hate to go back. I have had sessions with wind all over the place and I just feel totally comfortable and in control. Almost all of a very variable wind session on the 17 I am moving the bar around in a very comfortable range...not way in or way out...and I am always familiar with how the kite will behave with the bar in a certain position (Cloud or RRD), because I am not altering than by pulling a trim strap. It's like an arm position memory thing. I am liking being able to set the fully sheeted in position at a distance of my choosing...I may not change it...but I like where it is now...it is better for me...and it wasn't an option for me on my other bars. No, don't miss on the fly trim at all. Wouldn't want it if it were an option. Don't need it. My kite control is better and more relaxed without it. Maybe others will try it several times and hate it. My testing sample size is one person.

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Re: Boardriding Maui CS Bar Review (no chicken loop or leash

Postby rowboat » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:51 pm

Great review Don. I have a couple of sessions on the CS as well, and I am very impressed. Greg managed to rethink many aspects of what has become to be received wisdom about kite bars and simplify, improve, and lighten the end result in several ways. The various functionalities of a kite bar are interrelated in many ways, and he unlocked some key dependencies.

What I noted:

1) no chicken loop. I think CL evolved because from the windsurfing harness lines, and also because people wanted to unhook. Riders seem to unhook less these days, but more importantly, one of the reasons riders unhook (in surf) is to get more effective bar throw distance. So, if you make the bar so that you have more throw, you lessen the desire to unhook, and thus for a CL.

2) no trim/aka "depower" system. This probably evolved as a safety feature at the point when kites didn't depower that well, or perhaps as a response to the fact that once you have a chicken loop in the system, you can only throw the bar about 12" (the length of your forearm). If you remove the CL, you gain about 8" of bar throw. So if you get rid of the CL, it turns out you don't need a depower system. That's two sub-systems eliminated.

3) no bar-end line-winding horns. Another extra part. It's amazing that it look so many years for someone to figure out another way to wrap our lines. So there's another part eliminated.

4) no leash! Again, why do we have a leash? The leash exists because most bar systems don't have can't travel to depower far enough just by letter the bar go; the leash provides more line to slide up. So again, if the bar is made so that it can fully depower without disconnecting from the primary connection point, then you can have quick release flagging without the need for a secondary connection point, which means you don't need a leash. Fourth sub-system eliminated.

AND even with all of those doo-dads eliminated, you get a new feature: adjustable reach. As Don points out, a simple length of knotted Dyneema line (taking the place of the chicken loop) allows you to adjust the distance between the harness and the bar. Anyone who has tried teaching a smaller person with their own gear will have noticed how difficult it can be for a smaller person to use a traditional bar -- often they can't reach far enough to sheet out at all! Solved.

Finally, to zoom out a little:

No plastic bits – needless to say, that shit is obsolete like sugar

Even more interesting: very little metal. Metal parts are increasingly being replaced by textiles. I would love to have an entirely non-metallic setup.

The CS bar is simple. Fewer parts, no doo-dads, no dangly bits. Simpler is better.

The CS is light. I think Don's math shows that it's as much as a KILOGRAM lighter if you get rid of your harness hook (I did). Lighter is better.

Adding parts (or code, for your software types) to solve problems always results in bloat. Where's there's an extra part, there's often a better way. Engineering is not about designing more parts (or writing more code), it's about finding the most elegant solution.

To me the CS feels perfectly matched to the Clouds - simple, light, fast, nimble, responsive, elegant. This bar feels like a tool, not a toy.

Well done Greg!
Last edited by rowboat on Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Boardriding Maui CS Bar Review (no chicken loop or leash

Postby rowboat » Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:21 pm

@ronnie "Can you alter the distance between the rear lines on the bar easily?"

I think perhaps Don misunderstood your question. Yes, you can change the distance between the rear lines. As stated on the web site "Adjustment in width can be made however I leave the side lines at full width for all size Clouds from 17 to 5m."

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Re: Boardriding Maui CS Bar Review (no chicken loop or leash

Postby ronnie » Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:49 pm

rowboat wrote:@ronnie "Can you alter the distance between the rear lines on the bar easily?"

I think perhaps Don misunderstood your question. Yes, you can change the distance between the rear lines. As stated on the web site "Adjustment in width can be made however I leave the side lines at full width for all size Clouds from 17 to 5m."
Yes you are right rowboat, but I did ask about how easy it was to change. I guess it might be as simple as a larks head knot?

It made me smile when I first saw the bar because I thought it was a work of genius - as long as it does work.

I've managed to get my head around all of the changes except the trim, but I am going to try riding my 17 Cloud with fixed trim in close to the spreader bar and see how it works out. I can't get it in as close as the Cloud CS and still have all the safety, but I can get within about 2" of it
Its a very safe-feeling kite when overpowered, but I have a relatively short arm reach range, so I'll see if it all feels within range all the time.

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Re: Boardriding Maui CS Bar Review (no chicken loop or leash

Postby tautologies » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:03 pm

Fantastic!!
That bar looks killer.
:-) very indepth reviews too with good explanations.

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Re: Boardriding Maui CS Bar Review (no chicken loop or leash

Postby jakemoore » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:18 pm

Cool bar. Does anyone know where to buy the pins used in the quick release?

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Re: Boardriding Maui CS Bar Review (no chicken loop or leash

Postby ronf » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:45 pm

Pretty cool bar. And great reviews. May have to try it out.
Thanks Don, and Rowboat.

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Re: Boardriding Maui CS Bar Review (no chicken loop or leash

Postby ronnie » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:54 pm

jakemoore wrote:Cool bar. Does anyone know where to buy the pins used in the quick release?
Only source I have seen is
http://www.kiteboardingcloseouts.com/ac ... leash.html

or
http://www.lonasport.com/Kiteboarding/K ... -2011.html

about 30$ each.


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