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Quote: ".. when capitalism is a race to the bottom..."

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Re: Quote: ".. when capitalism is a race to the bottom..."

Postby Hawaiis » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:20 pm

NYKiter wrote:Funny how the meteoric rise of the billionaire CEO (labor leader income pales in comparison) coincided with the rise of the computer age and yet wages for everyone else only rose slightly over the last two decades. Computers enhanced worker productivity 100 fold but look where all the profits went.

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Re: Quote: ".. when capitalism is a race to the bottom..."

Postby SaulOhio » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:39 pm

NYKiter wrote:Sounds like you dont believe in America either...shame on you on Labor Day!!!

:baeh2:
America is SUPPOSED to be about free trade. I like the idea that my consumer purchases are helping some third world country get out of abject poverty.


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Re: Quote: ".. when capitalism is a race to the bottom..."

Postby TomW » Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:57 pm

Most of what you guys are saying proves the hypothesis that collective and group discussion is dumber than individual expert knowledge. Sorry guys.

Im not claiming im the expert. But ive been involved first hand in exporting knowhow in design, engineering and technology to China, Japan and Taiwan. Right now my people are teaching them to do the jobs we are now doing, and we will be unemployed sooner or later. I'm doing this with enthusiasm and energy because the company I work for must do this to survive in a world of Samsung, LG, Lenovo, Huawei etc....

Those young people over there are hungry, smart as hell, well educated, numerous and will win.

Its inevitable. I saw Sweden lose its ship building industry, then the manufacturing industry, now the telecommunications industry is going. Its the way of nature and humanity. Change or Die.
It will never ever go backwards, only forwards.

Economics always trumps everything else.

You don't like it? Go ahead. Invest your own money in domestic production, robots, what ever. There are exceptions, products that are large, or need local adaptation or are niche may be made locally with a profit. But I bet the labor behind those custom surfboards and Sup boards is illegal, underpaid or under the table.

Wake up.

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Re: Quote: ".. when capitalism is a race to the bottom..."

Postby marlboroughman » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:11 pm

As much as I like lifting people out of poverty, and I am not being sarcastic I am doing it hands on, I have a problem with a raise of China as a superpower as a result. The hope was that after they get a taste of capitalism they are going to be so happy they are going to embrace democracy and we gonna have one huge happy family. Instead they morphed into communists with economic power that will soon rival US. With that goes military spending and challenging every country in their neighborhood. In the mean time US is almost broke and it is now scrambling to counter that. That experiment didn't work at all if you want my opinion. In addition China's economy is depleting earths natural resources at the alarming rate. We haven't even touched on Russia which is going completely nuts even considering nuclear strikes against Eastern European capitals according to couple of their own independent writers left. All that power paid with Germany export machine thirsty for Russian energy. Where Germany's exports go? China again. Yes there is no going back but one day we all gonna wish we could.

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Re: Quote: ".. when capitalism is a race to the bottom..."

Postby William Munney » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:23 pm

TomW wrote:Most of what you guys are saying proves the hypothesis that collective and group discussion is dumber than individual expert knowledge. Sorry guys.

Im not claiming im the expert. But ive been involved first hand in exporting knowhow in design, engineering and technology to China, Japan and Taiwan. Right now my people are teaching them to do the jobs we are now doing, and we will be unemployed sooner or later. I'm doing this with enthusiasm and energy because the company I work for must do this to survive in a world of Samsung, LG, Lenovo, Huawei etc....

Those young people over there are hungry, smart as hell, well educated, numerous and will win.

Its inevitable. I saw Sweden lose its ship building industry, then the manufacturing industry, now the telecommunications industry is going. Its the way of nature and humanity. Change or Die.
It will never ever go backwards, only forwards.

Economics always trumps everything else.

You don't like it? Go ahead. Invest your own money in domestic production, robots, what ever. There are exceptions, products that are large, or need local adaptation or are niche may be made locally with a profit. But I bet the labor behind those custom surfboards and Sup boards is illegal, underpaid or under the table.

Wake up.
I agree with most of your post. But there are a couple of exceptions in the snowboard industry, Lib Tech and Never Summer. Both producing excellent products in the US at competitive prices.

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Re: Quote: ".. when capitalism is a race to the bottom..."

Postby NYKiter » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:47 pm

American capitalists loves communism.
It allows them to take advantage of communist workers economically while their chinese government holds them down socially.

Its a match made in heaven.

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Re: Quote: ".. when capitalism is a race to the bottom..."

Postby tautologies » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:56 pm

NYKiter wrote:American capitalists loves communism.
It allows them to take advantage of communist workers economically while their chinese government holds them down socially.

Its a match made in heaven.
I dunno, in many ways China is more capitalist than the US. :-)

I agree with TomW.

I do think that over a short period of time production of highly complex products will be fully automated, and therefore more efficient. It is nothing to fear, but people and societies have to adapt.

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Re: Quote: ".. when capitalism is a race to the bottom..."

Postby Sinthoras1 » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:40 am

William Munney wrote:But there are a couple of exceptions in the snowboard industry, Lib Tech and Never Summer. Both producing excellent products in the US at competitive prices.
I don't think labour costs are the main reason kite companies produce in Asia. Austria, a small country in the Alps still produces more snowboards than whole Asia, despite paying high wages, having the highest social standards and high taxes. Among the boards produced in Austria is everything, from the discounter boards to some of Americas most expensive cult- boards. Only lately China is becoming a main competitor. But snowboards are made of wood, so no environmaental issues. Kites are 100% synthetic and be able to throw all the poison in the river definitely helps...

BTW in snowboarding you really feel the difference. I had the pleasure to ride a Burton "Made in Austria", really nice board and than a Burton "Made in China". The second was of the worst quality you could imagine. Isn't Burton still producing their quality boards for the American market in the US?

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Re: Quote: ".. when capitalism is a race to the bottom..."

Postby i96dansa » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:36 am

I just bought myself an american board (Slingshot Celeritas) and the box says Made in China.
There you go.

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Re: Quote: ".. when capitalism is a race to the bottom..."

Postby Sinthoras1 » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:10 pm

RRD still makes their boards in Italy, which has pretty much the same labour costs than the US and here we adress another issue:
The international market. For most of you US guys it just doesn't matter if the board is produced in Italy or the third world, as long as it is produced outside the US. The same goes the other way around. It's true that many Europeans like US brands. In fact even a French company like F One gives itself an English name to sound more "original". That's in particular ridiculous cause it were 2 French brothers to come up with the first working kite. However Europeans like US brands, their marketing, the design, the team rider or whatever but they are not necessarily ready to pay more for it just because it's made in the USA.


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