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Small SLE kite (6m range) for learning vs trainer?

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redman333
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Small SLE kite (6m range) for learning vs trainer?

Postby redman333 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:43 pm

I had a trainer kite that I used. It had the ability to be used with 4 lines but every time I tried it didn't work. It work just fine with 2 lines though. I felt like I didn't learn anything from my trainer though. When I finally put up my 12m NRG from liquid force it felt VERY unfamiliar.

I am wanting to teach my gf how to kiteboard but I was thinking about getting her a 5 or 6m inflatable with 4 lines instead of a trainer. I personally have never used a small kite like this as we normally don't get high enough winds to warrant using a small kite. I was thinking about using this kite in relatively low winds. Enough to be able to fly the kite and loop it without getting too much of a pull.

Has anyone done this or tried it as a trainer.

Just an fyi, I plan on teaching her how to control the kite and fly it on land and if I think she can handle it to body drag. Once she feels comfortable flying the kite I'll have a friend that's an instructor in the area actually teach her how to get up and ride on the board.

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Re: Small SLE kite (6m range) for learning vs trainer?

Postby plummet » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:49 pm

Depends on how heavy you missis is. I had my missis (50 kg) on my 6m and it was dragging here around the beach in 12-15 knots.

Those little lei's can produce a decent power spike if looped through the powerzone at the right time even in light wind.

Plus the likely hood of damaging the kite or your missis doing a face drag is very high.

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Re: Small SLE kite (6m range) for learning vs trainer?

Postby SENDIT! » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:57 pm

We use trainers to teach people all the time, including using 4 line inflatables like the Ocean Rode React 2m kite. I'm not sure what wasn't working for you on your kite, but we've had great success using this method. The problem with using a very small (6m) kiteboarding kite, is that that kite is made to fly in very windy conditions. Trying to use it the winds appropriate to be using it as a trainer kite will not work well b/c of it's weight. That is why foils or very small inflatable trainers work so well for that. You are not the first guy to think of this, believe me. Now, would YOU be able to make that kite fly in lighter winds, sure...maybe..but you'd have to be working it all over. There'd be no way you could ever park it for training. I'd stick with one of the small trainers...that's what they're for.

Good luck with her. If you manage to get her kiting, you will have achieved the dream of all of us kiters with non-kiting spouses. :lol:

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Re: Small SLE kite (6m range) for learning vs trainer?

Postby Cray » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:20 pm

I use a 6 m Ozone Access depower foil kite to introduce friends to kite basics. It flies in almost no wind and it's indestructable (in low wind). In avarage they learn very quickly, develop good feeling in very light wind and then I usually switch them to 10m Airush Crest where they get a feeling for "heavy kite" handling.

2 line trainers are IMHO not good. They don't teach "letting go" - which is the 1st lesson a novice needs to learn + you can't teach full-body feeling of the kite without a harness. Again: I would never introduce a novice to a triner kite - too much is left out.

redman333
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Re: Small SLE kite (6m range) for learning vs trainer?

Postby redman333 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:24 pm

I believe the kite that I had was a power kite brand if I remember correclty. towards the end of my training myself i was messing around with the kite in 45mph winds and slammed it in the ground fully powered and blew out almost all the channels so I just tossed the kite.

I have looked at the ocean rodeo trainer and it looked like it may be good. Never tried one though. My kite I had could be used with 2 lines and 4. When I connected my 4 line setup on the kite it seemed to weigh it down and barely would fly. Even in high winds. It also was nearly non responsive to turning. Couldnt loop it without slamming it into the ground even when starting at 12 o-clock. On 2 lines I didnt have a problem though. I was able to learn about the wind window with a 2 line kite but that didnt take more then about 15min of flying. I would have prefered a 4 line trainer to learn on.

BTW my firl weighs about 115lbs. About 52kg.

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Re: Small SLE kite (6m range) for learning vs trainer?

Postby redman333 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:46 pm

Cray wrote:I use a 6 m Ozone Access depower foil kite to introduce friends to kite basics. It flies in almost no wind and it's indestructable (in low wind). In avarage they learn very quickly, develop good feeling in very light wind and then I usually switch them to 10m Airush Crest where they get a feeling for "heavy kite" handling.

2 line trainers are IMHO not good. They don't teach "letting go" - which is the 1st lesson a novice needs to learn + you can't teach full-body feeling of the kite without a harness. Again: I would never introduce a novice to a triner kite - too much is left out.
I just googled an ozone access and it's in the $900 range for a 4m. There's no way I'll go that high in price. I won't ever use it except to train. I'm thinking in the $400 or less range lol.

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Re: Small SLE kite (6m range) for learning vs trainer?

Postby ramin77 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:28 pm

I taught my son on a 2m foil trainer then switched to a 6m cabrinha switchblade. as long as wind is above 15mph, the kite did fine. Less than that and it would have to be worked to stay up in the air. I still have it...pm me if you are interested in buying it..:)

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Re: Small SLE kite (6m range) for learning vs trainer?

Postby Slappysan » Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:21 am

redman333 wrote: I just googled an ozone access and it's in the $900 range for a 4m. There's no way I'll go that high in price. I won't ever use it except to train. I'm thinking in the $400 or less range lol.
Well if you want to teach on land you really need a foil kite, a LEI wont take the abuse of a novice tamahawking in to the sand.

Here are your options:
- find a very shallow beach where you get 100m+ of ankle -> waist deep water and use a small LEI
- buy a cheap used foil
- shell out for a foil that you'll use on land or snow and can teach with

Keep in mind foil kites usually are priced with bar included as you don't want to re-rig them each session.

I would personally go with a Flysurfer Peak if you can't find a suitable shallow beach.

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Re: Small SLE kite (6m range) for learning vs trainer?

Postby dyyylan » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:25 am

We've taught a few people on 5m and 7m old C-kites, it works ok. A big kite is supposed to feel different than a trainer kite, the size difference is huge. Even a "normal" 5m 4-line kite is going to feel very different than a 12m of the same model.

Personally I wouldn't bother, I would just stick to the trainer kite and when she's comfortable, have her jump one of your smaller sizes to get the hang of how sheeting works, then put her on the proper sized kite for the day. That's what I've done with a few people and it worked fine, it depends a lot on your teaching methods also.

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Re: Small SLE kite (6m range) for learning vs trainer?

Postby toyletbowl » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:55 pm

Red....this is a great subject to bring up.

I run a school and business and we hardly ever use trainer kites anymore.

If you run a student centered approach, you'll realize that trainers help, but not as much as people think. Student centered means doing what is in the best interest of the student in comparison to teacher centered which is what works best for the teacher or biz.

Let me explain:

1) The hardest thing for new riders to learn is sheeting in and sheeting out properly. Without a doubt this is the biggest hurdle for flying kites for beginners. Learning on a 2 line kite doesn't teach this. Most everything that you can learn with a 2 line on land can be taught properly in the water if done the right way.

2) Learning the basics of flying a kite with a 4 line kite is actually quite easy if you teach the proper way. It will take a little more time on the water to learn, but save much more time by bypassing land training. You can teach left/right turning by just starting out with the kite on it's wing tip on the water and bring the kite up to 45 degrees and back down. Do this over and over until they understand. Don't even come close to going overhead until they understand the right and left at the side of the wind window and are starting to understand sheeting in and out on the bar.. There's very little pull and it gives them an easy out to let go if needed.

3) Size down one size kite and that will work. If it's 9m winds, size to a 6m. If it's 12m winds, size down to a 9m. You get the idea. It's not hard at all training in most any wind conditions except strong winds for new riders. You must be cautious though on how they are picking it up. Go too fast through the progression and they could slam your kite more.

About the only time we use trainer kites is on snow and hard icy surfaces or for students who are not sure they want to learn kiteboarding and just want to see what it is like. If a student is really nervous, that might be another option as well as some who may not be physically up to the task.

Hope this helps.

Bob
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