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RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

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rightguard
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Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby rightguard » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:34 am

You still didn't answer... What does Kelly ride?

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Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby plummet » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:17 am

The vangaurd is a cool looking board. I had a close up look at one the other day. It certianly isn't a board with just the nose and tail cut off. Lots of tech going into it.

The question I ask is this.

Why do you need a pointy nose on a kitesurfboard?

FredBGG
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Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby FredBGG » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:08 am

rightguard wrote:You still didn't answer... What does Kelly ride?
http://www.aspworldtour.com/posts/81110 ... al-trailer

Dec 8 the action starts

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Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby FredBGG » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:19 am

plummet wrote:
The question I ask is this.

Why do you need a pointy nose on a kitesurfboard?
Just look at pretty much all the images of a surfer going down a wave.

The board is snug against the face an right up to the point.

Image

The point smooths out the impact against, chop, wall, whitewater etc. First their is little rebound/lift from the thinnest part of the tip and the rebound/lift increases as the board widens.

To a certain extent that is what the two little V shapes at the tip of a vanguard do.

However you will see people like Felix recommending riding the vanguard with the back foot as far back on the board as possible .... well without a gradual pointed nose rocker... you kind of have to.

TommyDuotone
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Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby TommyDuotone » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:31 am

FredBGG wrote:
ulx wrote:
sckitesurf wrote:...The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.
Cool, so you have tried it already? Or at least seen it up close? I haven´t, only some pics and the gleiten.tv video. From what I can see, they do at least they look quite similar. Maybe you could elaborate on your precise insight info?

Very nice product video by the way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jQRvcpghQc

The product video of the Cotan pretty much sums it up. All these boards (vanguard included) are simply Cut-off nose and tail surfboards. Some with one type of hull concave and some with another. All of this has been seen before in non cut off boards. Take a Don Johnson mini gun and cut off the tail and tip.... you will have the same thing.

I'd say the big advantage of these boards is that they are easier to flip backwards to ride over kelp backwards. I'd recommend the cotan over the vanguard simply for the construction. FCS fin boxes just are not unto the forces of kitesurfing. The Futures with larger futures fin boxes are going to be stronger and you can also use Elevon fins that are only available in futures.
In regards to the construction of the firewires..

I have been using the firewires for kiting for the last 5 years or so. All have been surfboard construction with both FCS and Futures fin boxes. The FST surfboard construction holds up great for kiting as long as you reinforce the deck with a 4 or 6 oz. patch. We have a local repair guy do it for $50. Without the reinforcement the deck will eventually delaminate over time. However, the bottom of all my boards are flawless including the fin boxes. I'm fairly confident that the kite construction is much more durable. My friend who weighs 230 has had his Vanguard for a while and it's holding up great. That's why I had no problem dropping $750 for one of my own since I couldn't find a used one on Craig's for less than 500. Here's a pic of my 2 oldest firewires that have been used exclusively for kiting and ridden hard. You be the judge....
Attachments
image.jpg
Last edited by TommyDuotone on Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

rightguard
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Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby rightguard » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:49 am

Fred... What is that video showing... That he doesn't ride a vanguard.

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Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby sckitesurf » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:10 am

rightguard wrote:You still didn't answer... What does Kelly ride?
Really? He rides whatever his sponsors want him to and is paid tons to do it. Kelly couldn't ride a Vanguard even if he thought it to be the best board in the world. Let's try someone like Tom Curren who has surfed at Kelly's level and has the freedom to choose whatever he wants.

http://youtu.be/f1EDiBHWyjA

rightguard
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Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby rightguard » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:30 pm

I'm sure there are great surfers trying the vanguard... That's not the point. Fred was going on and on about Kelly but then we never even see him ride it... Just thought it was funny.

In that last video you see a guy riding a vanguard in the end with just two fins... How are most people using it?

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Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby sckitesurf » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:38 am

rightguard wrote:I'm sure there are great surfers trying the vanguard... That's not the point. Fred was going on and on about Kelly but then we never even see him ride it... Just thought it was funny.

In that last video you see a guy riding a vanguard in the end with just two fins... How are most people using it?
Ha, right on. Seems like most are setup as a tri. Some as a quad. If you setup as a quad you can squeeze another 1/2 a kite size out of the board in upwind performance on those really light days.

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Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby felixp » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:44 pm

This page might give more insight.

From people that actually have ridden the actual board.

http://www.straplesskitesurfing.com/201 ... tesurfing/


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