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Re: Ocean Rodeo: 10 & 12m Flite

Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 5:56 pm
by matthepp
ORSales wrote:
matthepp wrote: I'm going to re-build the OR bars into single front line flaggers.
We intend to have low Y, single front line flagging bars available by fall. Great to hear you're loving the kites!

Regarding not rolling over, if you dig in your heels in shallow water (or stand your ground when snow kiting) the kites won't quite roll over. If drifting down wind, or if you ski / walk / slide towards the kite, they will roll.

JZ~OR
John,
That's awesome. How can I get a few conversion parts? Meanwhile here's my hack. No new parts needed:
DSCN0139[1].JPG

Re: Ocean Rodeo: 10 & 12m Flite

Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:24 pm
by nickrh
ORSales wrote: We intend to have low Y, single front line flagging bars available by fall.
That's great news, specially assuming it also means the kites won't need to have 2 pulleys per side anymore.

Re: Ocean Rodeo: 10 & 12m Flite

Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 8:53 pm
by Vhbrennan43
Please don't forget below the bar swivel in the next generation bar along with single line flagging system: Also, an upgrade kit for current bar owners would be excellant as well.

Re: Ocean Rodeo: 10 & 12m Flite

Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 1:54 pm
by GhostDog
matthepp wrote:
DSCN0139[1].JPG
Isn't that safety line going to stop the swivel from working properly and/or get so wrapped around the center lines from loops that it won't be able to slide freely?

Re: Ocean Rodeo: 10 & 12m Flite

Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 3:53 pm
by Laughingman
matthepp wrote:
ORSales wrote:
matthepp wrote: I'm going to re-build the OR bars into single front line flaggers.
We intend to have low Y, single front line flagging bars available by fall. Great to hear you're loving the kites!

Regarding not rolling over, if you dig in your heels in shallow water (or stand your ground when snow kiting) the kites won't quite roll over. If drifting down wind, or if you ski / walk / slide towards the kite, they will roll.

JZ~OR
John,
That's awesome. How can I get a few conversion parts? Meanwhile here's my hack. No new parts needed:
DSCN0139[1].JPG
I just don't get why people like the cleat below the bar, as you trim the kite you loose throw... isn't that counter intuitive? if you pulled in all available trim you would basically pin the bar against the loop.... if you have short arms get a sliding above the bar cleat.

By the way this hack basically renders the swivel useless... not that it works anyhow.

There is something to be said about KISS but there is also something to be said about progression. This bar is basically 2008 tech. There is no reason OR cannot continue on with their safety release system but add a swivel to the front end of their chickenloop assembly.
Nice to have an inexpensive bar but if I have to hack it out of the box to suit my needs/wants then whats the point? And come on... adjustable width bars ends are a simple add.

The way I see it, if you are not going to try to compete with your competition when it comes to bars then why bother making one? Your kites will fly just as well on a North or a Switch bar.

Re: Ocean Rodeo: 10 & 12m Flite

Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 4:11 pm
by matthepp
Pete and Ghost Dog: you guys have good points. I rarely touch my trim strap anyhow (full range in the bar throw) but the trim strap does help at the high range to keep your arms and body position in. The high swivel should help unspin the lines but I know I will have to balance the loops to keep the safety release unbound (like most swivels). Looks like wind tomorrow so I'll see how it actually performs. I'll replace with cleat and Switch swivel if it sucks. In my opinion, I feel better about this than the mini fifth that I can't count on on snow.

Re: Ocean Rodeo: 10 & 12m Flite

Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 4:57 pm
by Laughingman
matthepp wrote:Pete and Ghost Dog: you guys have good points. I rarely touch my trim strap anyhow (full range in the bar throw) but the trim strap does help at the high range to keep your arms and body position in. The high swivel should help unspin the lines but I know I will have to balance the loops to keep the safety release unbound (like most swivels). Looks like wind tomorrow so I'll see how it actually performs. I'll replace with cleat and Switch swivel if it sucks. In my opinion, I feel better about this than the mini fifth that I can't count on on snow.

I have done similar mods but typically with a below the bar swivel which negates having an above the bar swivel, you can just loop the kite if you like, but I typically don't run my lines so once my kite is launched it is nice to simply untwist the lines with my hand before taking off.
I like this hack much better then the alternative mini fifth, so we can agree there!

Honestly as this is set up you will get the same result as having no swivel, the safety line must pass through the body of the swivel in order for this to work correctly, the switch swivel will work well but it is larger and a bit heavy, but it works.

Re: Ocean Rodeo: 10 & 12m Flite

Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 6:09 pm
by GhostDog
I would be concerned about the failure rate on the below the bar swivels, the nice thing about my OR bar is that there are very few moving parts or unnecessary points of failure. I have not seen a North or Switch up close so this is based on speculation.

Re: Ocean Rodeo: 10 & 12m Flite

Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:08 pm
by Laughingman
GhostDog wrote:I would be concerned about the failure rate on the below the bar swivels, the nice thing about my OR bar is that there are very few moving parts or unnecessary points of failure. I have not seen a North or Switch up close so this is based on speculation.
So, never heard of a below the bar swivel failure rate or even one fail for that matter... what type of failure are you expecting might happen? A below the bar swivel is not like a separate piece like it is above the bar, it is integrated into the chicken loop assembly. I mention switch and north because they are well known bars but seriously I bet more then 75% of new bars sold today (really since 2010) have a below the bar swivel, in fact I can only think of three companies that do not have one, OR, Flexifoil and Naish...
There is really no problem building a safe one with zero failure rate...lol ...OR just hasn't and I think they should.

Re: Ocean Rodeo: 10 & 12m Flite

Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:49 pm
by GhostDog
Laughingman wrote:

So, never heard of a below the bar swivel failure rate or even one fail for that matter... what type of failure are you expecting might happen?.
I guess I'm thinking that when you have metal, steel, plastic, there is a potential for failure, and the more complicated a part is, with bearings, etc, the more chance of failure. Just thinking out loud though. I have had North chicken loops blow up on me (6 years ago, not swivel) so it's not unheard of for bar parts to fail.

Don't want to change the topic in this forum too much, this is kind of meandering off track. :argue: