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Ultimate All Carbon Twin tip?

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jwoodunlv
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Re: Ultimate All Carbon Twin tip?

Postby jwoodunlv » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:29 am

I demoed a 135 hybrid last weekend. I live in Corpus so it's pretty easy to get a demo ride. Compared to my 134 freeride it is much different. It coasts through the lulls much better, turns a little better as it coasts much better than the freeride, and has a lot more pop. As with all bro's it has nice soft landings and sucks up chop like it's not even there. If you want a more all around ride I would highly recommend it.

SalmonSlayer
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Re: Ultimate All Carbon Twin tip?

Postby SalmonSlayer » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:33 am

jwoodunlv wrote:I demoed a 135 hybrid last weekend. I live in Corpus so it's pretty easy to get a demo ride. Compared to my 134 freeride it is much different. It coasts through the lulls much better, turns a little better as it coasts much better than the freeride, and has a lot more pop. As with all bro's it has nice soft landings and sucks up chop like it's not even there. If you want a more all around ride I would highly recommend it.
thx I am looking for better pop and a better board for chop. It sounds like the hybrid

Wouldn't a flatter Freeride do better in low wind?
Last edited by SalmonSlayer on Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

jwoodunlv
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Re: Ultimate All Carbon Twin tip?

Postby jwoodunlv » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:36 am

plummet wrote:
jwoodunlv wrote:. If you buy a board that has a wood core, you just bought a pretty piece of plywood. If you get a chance, try out a bro. Bring money because you'll probably buy one.

There is no doubt the brokite construction is glorious. The I-beam stringers are a stroke of genious..... The board is cutting edge.

Saying a woodcore board is like riding a piece of plywood is incorrect.

With each different type of construction method there are advantages and disadvantages. The key weakness to the brokite construction is Impact resistance. Damage those load bearing stringers and its game over. Buy a new board.

Wood core boards are far more resilient to impact restistance, far stronger and heavier....

Also difference core materials have different flex patterns. Writing off all other cores except foam shows ignorance.

I've ridden a lot of boards with wood cores and also made a plyboard and didn't notice much difference except for weight. They just seem to have a dead ride. I didn't realize it until I tried a bro free ride. It felt so much different and alive.

jwoodunlv
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Re: Ultimate All Carbon Twin tip?

Postby jwoodunlv » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:40 am

SalmonSlayer wrote:
jwoodunlv wrote:I demoed a 135 hybrid last weekend. I live in Corpus so it's pretty easy to get a demo ride. Compared to my 134 freeride it is much different. It coasts through the lulls much better, turns a little better as it coasts much better than the freeride, and has a lot more pop. As with all bro's it has nice soft landings and sucks up chop like it's not even there. If you want a more all around ride I would highly recommend it.
thx I am looking for better pop and a better board for chop

Wouldn't a flatter Freeride do better in low wind?

The freeride is pretty narrow in the tips so even the bigger ones need plenty of power. I'm planning on ordering a 135 hybrid this weekend. It's got some good low end. I rode it with a 10m nitro 4 with the lulls around 15mph and was getting upwind no problem. When you look at them they look like they have a ton of rocker but the flex creates a flat spot so they get up and go pretty quick but still turn nice.

SalmonSlayer
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Re: Ultimate All Carbon Twin tip?

Postby SalmonSlayer » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:43 am

jwoodunlv wrote:

The freeride is pretty narrow in the tips so even the bigger ones need plenty of power. I'm planning on ordering a 135 hybrid this weekend. It's got some good low end. I rode it with a 10m nitro 4 with the lulls around 15mph and was getting upwind no problem. When you look at them they look like they have a ton of rocker but the flex creates a flat spot so they get up and go pretty quick but still turn nice.
Great info!!! Thank you for taking the time to respond. It is what I needed to know.

jwoodunlv
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Re: Ultimate All Carbon Twin tip?

Postby jwoodunlv » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:46 am

No problem. They are great boards and really cool people to deal with!!

Do-it
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Re: Ultimate All Carbon Twin tip?

Postby Do-it » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:32 am

Litewave kick s- I only have a few sessions on this board, but I like it so far. I had a great session in the waves. The flat water session was even better. I noticed the increased pop after my first jump. The three stage rocker really helps with chop and upwind ability at the same time. I found this board great for hot landings due to the wider size. Oh- It is a hybryd board with carbon two carbon strips running the length of the board. Check out litewave kiteboards website. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

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Re: Ultimate All Carbon Twin tip?

Postby docjibe » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:36 am

I am also interested in the hybrid either 135 or 132, how much do you weigh?

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Re: Ultimate All Carbon Twin tip?

Postby plummet » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:43 am

GregK wrote:
plummet wrote: Wood core boards are far more resilient to impact restistance, far stronger and heavier....

Also difference core materials have different flex patterns. Writing off all other cores except foam shows ignorance.
Have heard ( but not seen any data to support it ) that a wood core has much better damping characteristics compared to PVC foams like Divinycell or Klegecell. Wonder if Bro have ever built a multiple-stringer board with a lighter wood core ?

Plummet - what kind of impact damage were you thinking ? Hard flat landings ?
I've been making boards since 2000. First longboard skateboards then kite longboards and now TT and mutant kiteboards.

I've tried various cores with glass, carbon and Kevlar over the years and felt for myself the difference in flex patterns of different cores. I really like bamboo as a core. Its a bit heavy but is strong as hell with a nice flex pattern.

I'm now combining bamboo with foam and carbon to get the desired weight flex and impact resistance.

The impact resistance I'm talking about is not hard landings. I'm talking about smashing board into boulders. At many of my local spots we surf point breaks with boulders jutting out of just bellow the surface. Its not unusual for a boulder to boil up and you smash it with the board. Foam core cant handle that abuse. Wood core can.

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Re: Ultimate All Carbon Twin tip?

Postby board dude » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

At Nomad we have been using carbon fibre for over 11 years, its for sure a material which has alot of marketing about it , alot of image and alot of facts unknown by the general public.
All twintips have flex , when you ride a twintip it bends into a shape by the load your pushing on it and the water pushing back.
The trick is to have the board bend into the rocker shape that is efficient and clean in the water. Fibreglass twintips that have too much flex bend to much and produce a negative rocker line
between the footstraps. The water flowing over a negative rocker line produces drag , the board has a stick to the water feel and requires huge power from the kite to drive and definitely
no upwind .
Back to carbon fibre, a well designed carbon twintip is much the same as a carbon fibre windsurf mast , a windsurf sail in windy gusts bends away - the mast distorts and rapidly returns to its shape, if the setup is good the rider is not aware of these movements and has a continue constant power drive.
The same effect is created by a well sorted carbon fibre twintip, the carbon fibre reflex is very quick and maintains your rockerline at its pre-designed optimized shape. you will always be able to design more flex into a carbon board than a fibre board before you reach the issue of a negative rockerline.

A flexi board hits chop - bends and absorbs the movement and continues on its course with minimal disruption , a rigid board hits the chop - remains stiff and pushes the twintip on to a new
course, the impact is also passed on to the rider who continually has to arrange a new position. A good carbon twintip is always going to be smoother in chop and give a much more constant ride.

On top of that gain of a smooth and efficient ride you also have the same effect from the input of the rider .The rider is constantly changing the pressure he is putting through the kiteboard , it can be from gusts hitting the kite , it can be from turning the kite or simply changing direction going higher upwind or downwind . Once again the carbon board bends under the load and quickly returns back to its optimized shape and maintains a constant speed, more so than a standard fibre board.
Efficiency is mentioned here many times , an efficient rocker line is fast to plane holds a very high upwind angle and requires far less power from the kite, and can mean taking a smaller size kite. An efficient rockerline is a shape that has gentle curves with no sudden changes in shape, the flex is achieved by layup and core shaping .
Its not quite as easy as laminating a twintip with carbon fibre and bingo you have a great kiteboard , the whole system must be balanced with a great rockerline and flex in specific areas. Cnc machines are the only way to achieve such detailed core shapes and repeat the process. There are also many shape options that can be equated into the twintip, tunnel concave , flat concave , lifted convex rails , channels are a few important features .

Simon worked with the early kiteboard twintips and in 2001 established Nomad kiteboarding in Tarifa , in 2003 Nomad introduced the first carbon laminates using the above concepts.
http://www.nomadkiteboarding.com/index.html


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