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Death Looping Kites...how to stop them?

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RickI
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Re: Death Looping Kites...how to stop them?

Postby RickI » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:01 pm

Historically, with the scenario of looping kite dragging a kiter, with the kiter unable to depower (often defeated after some looping) or release the kite entirely for whatever reason, with potential rescuers following in other water craft, shooting the kite out of the sky seemed to be the easiest approach. Problem, no one usually has a gun. People have dove into the kite, tried to cut the lines and other risky measures not certain to succeed. Sometimes something fails on the kite system depowering the kite but there is no predicting that.

This subject came up recently when a land traction kiter said they throw a water bottle tied to a line across the lines of the looping kite and there by pull the kite down? He said he had done this procedure twice with success. I suspect it was with a RAM kite and one not moving unlike what is usually this case in our kite looping cases. I wonder if this would do any good with a rigid LEI kite or if the bottle and line would just be pulled into the kiter?

I thought about changing the water bottle out for a small grapnel, throwing the grapnel and line then pulling it slightly windward abeam of the kite lines? The goal would be to try to support the kite by one or two lines at most, depowering it. Still, even small grapnel might be pulled into the kiter and do harm, it may fail to catch the lines, etc. . The line attached to the grapnel could do some harm to the rescuer as well once it loaded up. I am not convinced this is a good approach either.

Speculation on variants of this approach? Otherwise, carry a shotgun for looping kites?

I looked around for a looping kite video to give a feeling for just how difficult it can be to get at the lines to cut them or to jump on the canopy and came across one I hadn't seen before. Preflight your kite setup and punchout instantly if it looks/acts like the lines are improperly rigged or the bar is upside down. The kite will often hesitate to fly when held up for launch, a give away of trouble to come. If your kite goes down into the water, expect that it might come up looping and release it entirely immediately if it does. If your kite goes down and your are tangled in your lines, consider cutting your lines fast as your may have very little time to act, etc.. Anyway ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33HUFJmM-Bk

and something more along the lines I was looking for. Note how uneven the lines are and yet the kite is still looping dragging the kiter along. This also makes me question the water bottle or grapnel over the lines is a sufficiently reliable approach. Each case may vary somewhat requiring specific response but it would be good to come up with a general approach with some chance of success in depowering the kite and saving the kiter before drowning, heart attack or serious impact.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQl_2Klta6w

Fksa.org

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi

.
Last edited by RickI on Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Death Looping Kites...how to stop them?

Postby matth » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:40 pm

Great find Rickl, there is lots to learn from that first video. First mistake was the kiter should have punched out the instant his kite rolled back on launch. Punch out, reload and start over.
Second mistake was after he is first dragged and bar gets wrapped around bar end. He should have recognized how deadly that situation is and screamed for immediate help grabbing his kite.
Instead he hesitates and helper is standing aside when he clearly had time to grab kite and end the situation. Third is a bar issue and something designers need to focus on. Cab, North, LF, and others now make bars with solid extensions on the outside lines that make line wraps on bar ends less likely. All bars should have this and the existing ones should be improved on. Maybe some sort of snap on/off plastic sleeve that extends up 20 to 30 inches would make it nearly impossible for this to happen. Why not put some Rand D into a serious problem that seems easy to solve.

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Re: Death Looping Kites...how to stop them?

Postby justbob » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:11 pm

I keep my dakine knife on a thin bungee attached inside the front pocket on my vest.
Might be tricky getting at it in a hurry, but at least there's little chance I might drop it
as opposed to having it on my harness somewhere where I might fumble at it.
I always check to make sure its there before I head out.

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Re: Death Looping Kites...how to stop them?

Postby darippah » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:43 pm

I just pull the opposite line the few times this has happened and it worked great. Its usually enough to land the kite with some assistance and no damage. Or at least allow me to get to a safer location to release the kite. Obviously this wouldnt work in the most extreme situations

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Re: Death Looping Kites...how to stop them?

Postby edt » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:48 pm

check out that first video. The shit hits the fan 10 seconds in. At 45 seconds in is the first time he tries the quick release. Think about that. He gets tossed around for 35 seconds before he finally decides to throw the quick release by then it's too late the floater got stuck under his spreader hook.

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Re: Death Looping Kites...how to stop them?

Postby longwhitecloud » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:24 pm

I think some people here are in denial because they ride the actual kites that cause many of the problems...

Deathloops are mostly caused by lack of design consideration.

Bridles that have the ability to wrap around the tips of kites even if kite frame deformed in some way. Or jammed /knotted pullies.

Failure to consider the ability for kite leader lines to get wrapped around bar ends/ anything that can cause one line to become shorter/longer than the other by catching/ self tying a knot on it.

It's not really that complicated. Fast looping kites high in the sky in 30 knots + >>> just pull the release right? or casually get your knife out... ---- you are in dreamland.

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Re: Death Looping Kites...how to stop them?

Postby JGTR » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:37 pm

1. Modern away from body one handed release - none of that Velcro or twist rubbish.

2. Leash front or side, easy to get to.

3. Ditch the board leash, will drown you.

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Re: Death Looping Kites...how to stop them?

Postby RedSky » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:01 am

I can't remember who told me this, long time ago, but they ride with the deflate valve only pushed it part way. It was enough to hold air in the LE but would pop out if slammed.

Helped to prevent excess pressure damage but it might work in a situation like this too. Of course I doubt you see much of the old style deflate valves these days.

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Re: Death Looping Kites...how to stop them?

Postby edt » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:45 am

RedSky wrote:I can't remember who told me this, long time ago, but they ride with the deflate valve only pushed it part way. It was enough to hold air in the LE but would pop out if slammed..
lol. If I did that I would be constantly swimming. Extra flotation, helmet, hook knife, releasable harness there's better ways to be safer

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Re: Death Looping Kites...how to stop them?

Postby LynchMob » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:20 am

It seems almost everyone who has kited for a period of time has experienced a death loop. Even as an experienced kiter I found myself panicked and fortunately was far enough away from shore to pull my safety in time. A couple of areas I would like to address. Two quick releases. On on the bar, one on the harness. Lines wrap around kite hooks fairly easier making the QR on the bar useless. I agree with everyone that muscle memory is key but everyone should also have a simple full breakaway on their harness. A kite knife is all but useless unless you get wrapped up in your lines. The mystic KRS looked promising but there has to be a simple release system that is used in skydiving that could be adapted to our sport.


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