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Switch Nitro4 or Best TS 2014

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john251
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Style: Freeride
Gear: Best Kahoona 7.5, 9.5, 11.5
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Re: Switch Nitro4 or Best TS 2014

Postby john251 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:53 pm

it has a single line flag out. Maybe it's the 2013. Anyway, as long as the line lengths are okay for the nitro I'm fine. that was my real concern

john251
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Best Spark 135
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Re: Switch Nitro4 or Best TS 2014

Postby john251 » Wed May 20, 2015 1:29 am

I went ahead and bought the Switch Nitro. I got to try it for the first time this weekend and figured I'd report back on my initial observations. I got the 12m and was riding on the Columbia River in winds of around 25 knots, maybe a bit stronger at times. Compared with the Best Kahoona, a kite I'm very familiar with, this was what I found:

The kite:
- the top end was unbelievable. I was apprehensive launching a 12m in fairly strong winds, but I wanted to try using it, so I figured I'd give it a go. Towards the end of my session, most people were on 7-9m kites and I still didn't need to adjust the depower, which I had at the midpoint. I felt like I was near the top of the kite's range, but I was in control. That wouldn't have been the case with the Kahoona
- the kite definitely wanted to boost. I found that I was jumping about the same height as with the Kahoona, but my timing and technique with the Nitro were much worse, so I think that once I have those things dialed in, this kite will go quite a bit higher. Landings were noticeably softer. Then again, it's quite difficult to compare, because I would not be able to ride the Kahoona in such strong winds
- to me, it felt like the kite turned slowly. This was the one surprise, because many reviews commented on how fast the kite turns. I think it must have to do with the way it turns, as it is axial and I am used to pivot turning kites. I felt like I really had to pull hard on the bar to get the kite to turn compared with the Kahoona. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has found that.

The bar:
- I liked the simplicity of the bar and the adjustability
- The swivel worked flawlessly, which was a nice surprise. I expected to have to turn it manually after rotations
- The bar was a bit hard and narrow for my liking. The best bar is wider and easier on the hands
- I found it hard to keep the depower ball secured, but it's important to as I found it could interfere with the movement of the bar otherwise
- The safety releases easily. I'm yet to test how easily it can be reassembled in the water.

Overall, I think it is a bit of an adjustment going from the Kahoona to the Nitro, but I see lots of potential in this kite, so I'm going to stick with it and learn how to use it properly. I'll be curious to test the low end, because if it's as good as the high end, I might have a one kite quiver now.

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justbob
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Local Beach: Southern Ontario
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Location: Southern Ontario

Re: Switch Nitro4 or Best TS 2014

Postby justbob » Wed May 20, 2015 2:29 am

john251 wrote:I went ahead and bought the Switch Nitro. I got to try it for the first time this weekend and figured I'd report back on my initial observations. I got the 12m and was riding on the Columbia River in winds of around 25 knots, maybe a bit stronger at times. Compared with the Best Kahoona, a kite I'm very familiar with, this was what I found:

The kite:
- the top end was unbelievable. I was apprehensive launching a 12m in fairly strong winds, but I wanted to try using it, so I figured I'd give it a go. Towards the end of my session, most people were on 7-9m kites and I still didn't need to adjust the depower, which I had at the midpoint. I felt like I was near the top of the kite's range, but I was in control. That wouldn't have been the case with the Kahoona
- the kite definitely wanted to boost. I found that I was jumping about the same height as with the Kahoona, but my timing and technique with the Nitro were much worse, so I think that once I have those things dialed in, this kite will go quite a bit higher. Landings were noticeably softer. Then again, it's quite difficult to compare, because I would not be able to ride the Kahoona in such strong winds
- to me, it felt like the kite turned slowly. This was the one surprise, because many reviews commented on how fast the kite turns. I think it must have to do with the way it turns, as it is axial and I am used to pivot turning kites. I felt like I really had to pull hard on the bar to get the kite to turn compared with the Kahoona. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has found that.

The bar:
- I liked the simplicity of the bar and the adjustability
- The swivel worked flawlessly, which was a nice surprise. I expected to have to turn it manually after rotations
- The bar was a bit hard and narrow for my liking. The best bar is wider and easier on the hands
- I found it hard to keep the depower ball secured, but it's important to as I found it could interfere with the movement of the bar otherwise
- The safety releases easily. I'm yet to test how easily it can be reassembled in the water.

Overall, I think it is a bit of an adjustment going from the Kahoona to the Nitro, but I see lots of potential in this kite, so I'm going to stick with it and learn how to use it properly. I'll be curious to test the low end, because if it's as good as the high end, I might have a one kite quiver now.
Agree with you on the high end, had my new 14m out in hatteras recently, near the end of the session when others were on 7's to 10's. I was still riding around half depowered, having a blast. Never felt overpowered or out of control. @ 225lbs, eventually I would like to go with a two kite quiver, 10 and 14.
I find the 14 turns fast enough for me when I really crank the bar, can't really compare it to others.
As for the the depower ball, get rid of it and rig up a strap, you won't regret it.
Bob

Lubo
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Re: Switch Nitro4 or Best TS 2014

Postby Lubo » Wed May 20, 2015 3:18 am

How the bar pressure on the TS?

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dyyylan
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Re: Switch Nitro4 or Best TS 2014

Postby dyyylan » Wed May 20, 2015 3:25 am

Glad you got a session on it, a couple points that might be of interest


The kite turns slowly when it's depowered a lot (like any kite, really. the lines have more slack). If you want to ride it more like a C-kite, since the kite is very sensitive to your board edge, you can power it up a bit more and just edge hard to keep the kite forward in the window. I only ever depower about halfway, even in 25mph+ on the 12m. Makes for very big boosts in the top end too :D

The depower ball is definitely not as easy to quickly handle like some other systems, like ones that have velcro on the end (or the new LF one that has magnets). It takes a second longer to position but if you do it right, it does stay on very well. The technique I usually use is I line up that groove on the ball and slide it down the line, rather than trying to stick it directly on. It takes a little more practice but over time it has held a little better for me than other systems (velcro wears out, for example)

Keep practicing, I'm sure you can feel that elevator pull. I've gotten some huge jumps with this kite, once you get the technique dialed it rips you off the water really quick like a c kite. I agree the height might be similar to a kahoona, that kite is pretty easy to get big air on. But like you said, the top end of the nitro is unreal so I think on the same kite size, I can go higher on the nitro just because I can hold so much more power down!

I never ended up buying a 9m this spring, I kited every session on my 12m (up to about 30mph) and I weigh 145 lbs.... I'm going to the gorge in a few weeks and I have no idea what size kites to expand my quiver with, haha.. I was riding 9 and 7m mostly last year.... thinking about just a 10 this year and going big :o

@Lubo: I think bar pressure is about the same. Maybe slightly less on the nitro, but I haven't flown the TS in a couple months so I'm very used to the nitro now instead.

igoryak
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Re: Switch Nitro4 or Best TS 2014

Postby igoryak » Wed May 20, 2015 8:37 am

I replaced the ball with a strap, and added Velcro for it to stick on the stopper ball. Much easier to grab on the move..

http://www.northkites.co.uk/kitesurf_sp ... _2008_2015

Bletti
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Re: Switch Nitro4 or Best TS 2014

Postby Bletti » Wed May 20, 2015 9:53 am

I'm not a huge fan of the ball either. I'm thinking I might try glue on tiny neodymium magnets to the ball and cleat. They are only a dollar for 5 on eBay.

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randycasburn
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Re: Switch Nitro4 or Best TS 2014

Postby randycasburn » Wed May 20, 2015 4:08 pm

Not trying to be a naysayer or upset any brand loyalists, this is a legitimate objective question concerning...
dyyylan wrote:...The depower ball is definitely not as easy to quickly handle like some other systems, like ones that have velcro on the end (or the new LF one that has magnets). It takes a second longer to position but if you do it right, it does stay on very well. The technique I usually use is I line up that groove on the ball and slide it down the line, rather than trying to stick it directly on. It takes a little more practice but over time it has held a little better for me than other systems (velcro wears out, for example)
Should something so simple require a technique?

The cheapest no-name bar I have uses a strap and velcro. I basically trim and throw the velcro up to stick it...simple, done. If the velcro wears out, as you suggest, you replace the velcro. The velcro has not worn out is 3 years and 100s of sessions of use.

My intent is not to be critical, I find all the kite companies are scrambling for the patent space left in the sport. That means we suffer as end users because of the incumbrance the patents place on design. Case in point - Core twist to release. So my intent is to hope that Bill reads this thread and reduces the need for as many specialized "techniques" as possible. It seems the ball is one that folks are repeatedly mentioning.

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Re: Switch Nitro4 or Best TS 2014

Postby Faxie » Wed May 20, 2015 4:26 pm

V1 bar had a velcro handle, and people were complaining about that too. So that's why Switch decided to try something else I guess.

It was a good idea on paper, but in practice it just doesn't work that well. It's a bit hard to reach too sometimes, and difficult to grab in those situations. You could move the cleat closer to you, but then you'll lose barthrow.

I never clamp the ball on the lines. Then again, I almost never have the need to use the trim anyway.

Something with magnets would be nicer probably.

igoryak
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Re: Switch Nitro4 or Best TS 2014

Postby igoryak » Thu May 21, 2015 8:18 am

randycasburn wrote:Not trying to be a naysayer or upset any brand loyalists, this is a legitimate objective question concerning...
dyyylan wrote:...The depower ball is definitely not as easy to quickly handle like some other systems, like ones that have velcro on the end (or the new LF one that has magnets). It takes a second longer to position but if you do it right, it does stay on very well. The technique I usually use is I line up that groove on the ball and slide it down the line, rather than trying to stick it directly on. It takes a little more practice but over time it has held a little better for me than other systems (velcro wears out, for example)
Should something so simple require a technique?

The cheapest no-name bar I have uses a strap and velcro. I basically trim and throw the velcro up to stick it...simple, done. If the velcro wears out, as you suggest, you replace the velcro. The velcro has not worn out is 3 years and 100s of sessions of use.

My intent is not to be critical, I find all the kite companies are scrambling for the patent space left in the sport. That means we suffer as end users because of the incumbrance the patents place on design. Case in point - Core twist to release. So my intent is to hope that Bill reads this thread and reduces the need for as many specialized "techniques" as possible. It seems the ball is one that folks are repeatedly mentioning.
I doubt that Bill H designed that depower ball. its just a depower ball. he designs kites.
Theres always something to improve, they tried to improve that dangling strap from their last bar, and next time they'll probably replace the depower ball.
I replaced the depower ball for a strap in less than 5 minutes with a figure 8 knot.

There are other things to improve in this bar, but its still a really great bar for the price point.


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