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Just another death loop

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longwhitecloud
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Re: Just another death loop

Postby longwhitecloud » Tue May 12, 2015 10:27 pm

"That isn't in the manual"


that is real light winds

i have a video somewhere of 2 kiters that got pulled together - pulled totally hook to hook getting both dragged in a death loop - completely stuck the only thing that stopped them was that the non deathlooping kite getting dragged behind filled up with about 150kg of sand slowing them down - to add to that there was a 4wd doing donuts around them on the beach - what a sight!

Sure use your quick release but deathloops can be inherent by kite design - choose your kite carefully. Nothing wrong with launching unhooked too, being confident unhooked is not abad thing.

Another point is that launcher should be checking for bridle wraps etc also.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby Starsky » Wed May 13, 2015 12:04 am

@ Marlboroughman

This is a warning I received and heeded when posting a similar system. It was something I had heard before but needed reminding. Thanks Tom.
tomatkins wrote: My main concern would be with the “one point” suspension of the chicken loop. I think that most chicken loops are constructed with a plastic tube covering a rope core... are meant to be compatible with a hook design, which has two points of support for the chicken loop.

I would constantly check your chicken loop for signs of the “one point” contact area, causing a permanent sharp bend or a crack in the plastic tube. The older the chicken loop becomes, the more likely for this to occur. In the past, the occurance of this situation have caused release mechanisms to fail to release smoothly, causing the rider to get jerked violently, before releasing.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby tomatkins » Wed May 13, 2015 3:56 am

Ha, ha... here is something to think about: “The Good Samaratan Move”: One of the people on the beach close to the kiter runs over and uses their kite knife to cut one or 2 of the guy’s lines. The Good Samaratan wants to help but does not want to put themselve in danger of getting caught in the lines, so he just hooks the nearest outside lines with his knife.

I have always supported the idea that a kiter carries a hook knife to help others (as well as himself).

So...Good idea OR ... ?


... later in the courtroom.... “Your honor, as you can see in the second video, with out permission from my client, this defendant, seated over there, acted injudiciouly and maliciously, when he recklessly intruded in this foolish act of vandalism, attacking and damaging my clients expensive recreational equipment... and indeed, further endangering my client’s life...etc, etc. “

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby Toby » Wed May 13, 2015 5:02 am

sijandy wrote:
Toby wrote:
TommyDelly wrote:I think the best way is to do an unhooked pre-flight check and then hook in and launch.

So, just connect your leash, tell your helper to put the kite in the launch position, one hand on the chickenloop and the other on the bar, when the lines get tension check for tangles and crossed lines, then hook in and give the signal.
I am sure this is the safest way to launch, its basically just like tethered launch but with a helper.

And i think this is a compromise for you guys :D you can check the kite before hooking in and you dont need to launch unhooked, win-win right :thumb: :bye:
sounds like an excellent solution! :thumb:
A solution to what exactly? He's just described a standard assisted launch.
For a compromise regarding hooked vs unhooked launch ;-)

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby baobob » Wed May 13, 2015 6:26 am

JGTR wrote:
baobob wrote:
Starsky wrote:
Oh shit handles are great for some issues, but would not have helped in the video. He was caught by a back line on the harness hook and even his release when fired did nothing.
I disagree. He could remove the harness and grab the OS handle. Or someone else on the beach could grab one OS handle and walk 3-5 mt away.
Wow heard it all now. Removing harness in an emergency situation? Ain't going to happen.

But seriously can't believe you are suggesting a third party grabbing a steering line and walking 3-5m away from the kiter who is still attached to the kite - idea is to stop death loops not make them happen!!!
A 10 mt kite has about 7 mt flat span, so I was wrong when I said 3-5mt let say that 7+ will do the job?

I have to say that I don't remember you post a valid option to approach an assistance. I second the (before modification) Starsky's opinion about you.

Cutting the lines with the standard line cutter it is as hard as remove the harness.
-This cutter is good on tensioned flying lines but not at all on leader lines.
- flying lines are not too close. On airush bar they are at more than 1mt.
- if you cut just one line your kite can start to deathloop as anyone who snapped a line know.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby JGTR » Wed May 13, 2015 8:14 am

I didn't post a "valid option" because I was too busy pointing out how dangerous you are.

A third party pulling a steering line could have serious consequences and cause the kite to start looping again. O shit handles are designed to be used once the emergency release has been operated, not while still connected to the rider.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby baobob » Wed May 13, 2015 10:05 am

JGTR wrote:I don't need a second opinion on you, I can tell you are a bell end.

I didn't post a "valid option" because I was too busy pointing out how dangerous you are.

A third party pulling a steering line could have serious consequences and cause the kite to start looping again. O shit handles are designed to be used once the emergency release has been operated, not while still connected to the rider.
Ok when you are less busy please illuminate us with your know knowledge.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby JGTR » Wed May 13, 2015 10:57 am

baobob wrote:
JGTR wrote:I don't need a second opinion on you, I can tell you are a bell end.

I didn't post a "valid option" because I was too busy pointing out how dangerous you are.

A third party pulling a steering line could have serious consequences and cause the kite to start looping again. O shit handles are designed to be used once the emergency release has been operated, not while still connected to the rider.
Ok when you are less busy please illuminate us with your know knowledge.
What do you want to know?

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baobob
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Re: Just another death loop

Postby baobob » Wed May 13, 2015 11:13 am

What you were going to do in the same situation of the guy? And what could the lady do to help him?

Waiting for your answer.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby JGTR » Wed May 13, 2015 11:52 am

baobob wrote:What you were going to do in the same situation of the guy? And what could the lady do to help him?

Waiting for your answer.
Not panicked, long safe area without obstacles, hung on, waited for the kite to stop (as they usually do) and hopefully unhook the lines from the bar.

Failing that I would have grabbed the front lines as high as possible to de power the kite and stop it looping allowing the lines below to go slack so I could unhook them or someone could provide assistance.

The lady could have safely approached from upwind and grabbed the kite, but I appreciate her hesitation. 2 options, go round the back of the kite due to the direction it was looping and the position of the leading edge or grab wingtip and run upwind with kite.

Ultimately the self launch argument is not relevant as the issue is the bar getting caught in the hook, a situation that can happen at any time.

But seeing as you value input I do tethered self launch (with a leash on CL and another on safety so should kite come loose it flags out, also allows me to check lines before launch and keeps me safe until I am sure all lines are ok) or when I used to do "slide" launch on bow kites I weighted one side of canopy with sand, turned kite partially into wind to fill canopy, walked round into launch position and roll kite at the edge of the window without any sliding or hot launching.


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