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Just another death loop

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Toby
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Re: Just another death loop

Postby Toby » Wed May 13, 2015 12:49 pm

Go around the back of the kite?
Never!

Watch where it loops and then approach it from the site quickly and don't hesitate.
You have to wait for the moment where it stops. You run parallel to it while it loops. It can only loop in one small area.

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baobob
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Re: Just another death loop

Postby baobob » Wed May 13, 2015 1:01 pm

JGTR wrote: Not panicked, long safe area without obstacles, hung on, waited for the kite to stop (as they usually do) and hopefully unhook the lines from the bar.
-It was a lucky case that the area was uncrowded and without obstacles.
-The kite eventually stop and the wind eventually drop. What if not and there are swimmers on the beach?
-What do you mean with unhook the lines from the bar? And do you mean with kite parked or not? If kite is not parked and you mean remove them you should explain me how it can be easier than remove the harness. Not considering that if you remove a back line when the kite is not parked you can really see some crazy deathloop.
JGTR wrote: Failing that I would have grabbed the front lines as high as possible to de power the kite and stop it looping allowing the lines below to go slack so I could unhook them or someone could provide assistance.
Putting hands on tensioned line is a smart idea. Google kite line cut and have a look at the pics.
JGTR wrote: The lady could have safely approached from upwind and grabbed the kite, but I appreciate her hesitation. 2 options, go round the back of the kite due to the direction it was looping and the position of the leading edge or grab wingtip and run upwind with kite.
This option it was already proposed in another post and it's a good option as long as the helper can run faster than the looping kite.
Anyway there are few drawbacks:
-kiter can hit the helper
-kite can hite the helper
-If the helper is unlucky the kite can do a deathloop at the really moment he/she is approaching the wingtip. And this can cause a severe injury for the helper. Google kite line cut and have a look at the pics.

About self lauching it's plenty of posts/videos and all of them recommend to double check line are correctly attached and clear of branches. I have some doubts on
JGTR wrote: I do tethered self launch (with a leash on CL and another on safety so should kite come loose it flags out, also allows me to check lines before launch and keeps me safe until I am sure all lines are ok)
Do you use 2 leashes?

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby JGTR » Wed May 13, 2015 1:06 pm

Toby wrote:Go around the back of the kite?
Never!

Watch where it loops and then approach it from the site quickly and don't hesitate.
You have to wait for the moment where it stops. You run parallel to it while it loops. It can only loop in one small area.
Its only an option, situation may arise where it's a better option to go round back of kite but yes I do agree that it is not great advice. In this situation the kite is stationary for more than long enough to go round the back but obviously giving it a wide berth as you say it only loops in a small area, my thoughts being that if you approach from the side that the lady is then if the kite loops you are slap bang in the power zone whereas if you approach from the leading edge side then you are in a better place to grab kite and if it does move then it goes towards you and you can grab it, but either option has its down side.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby baobob » Wed May 13, 2015 1:11 pm

Toby wrote:Go around the back of the kite?
Never!
I second this one.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby JGTR » Wed May 13, 2015 1:20 pm

baobob wrote:
JGTR wrote: Not panicked, long safe area without obstacles, hung on, waited for the kite to stop (as they usually do) and hopefully unhook the lines from the bar.
-It was a lucky case that the area was uncrowded and without obstacles.
-The kite eventually stop and the wind eventually drop. What if not and there are swimmers on the beach?
-What do you mean with unhook the lines from the bar? And do you mean with kite parked or not? If kite is not parked and you mean remove them you should explain me how it can be easier than remove the harness. Not considering that if you remove a back line when the kite is not parked you can really see some crazy deathloop.
JGTR wrote: Failing that I would have grabbed the front lines as high as possible to de power the kite and stop it looping allowing the lines below to go slack so I could unhook them or someone could provide assistance.
Putting hands on tensioned line is a smart idea. Google kite line cut and have a look at the pics.
JGTR wrote: The lady could have safely approached from upwind and grabbed the kite, but I appreciate her hesitation. 2 options, go round the back of the kite due to the direction it was looping and the position of the leading edge or grab wingtip and run upwind with kite.
This option it was already proposed in another post and it's a good option as long as the helper can run faster than the looping kite.
Anyway there are few drawbacks:
-kiter can hit the helper
-kite can hite the helper
-If the helper is unlucky the kite can do a deathloop at the really moment he/she is approaching the wingtip. And this can cause a severe injury for the helper. Google kite line cut and have a look at the pics.

About self lauching it's plenty of posts/videos and all of them recommend to double check line are correctly attached and clear of branches. I have some doubts on
JGTR wrote: I do tethered self launch (with a leash on CL and another on safety so should kite come loose it flags out, also allows me to check lines before launch and keeps me safe until I am sure all lines are ok)
Do you use 2 leashes?
It's also lucky that Martians didn't come down and eat his head, you asked what I'd do in that specific situation, I gave you an answer now quit riding me your mama needs some loving.

The meaning of unhook the lines from the (spreader) bar is self explanatory (for a 5 year old at least). If you thought that I meant undo the larks head knots and detach the flying line from the bar then you are retarded.

You are also retarded if you think I would suggest grabbing tensioned lines, anyone with half a skooby about kites will appreciate that I mean grabbing the front lines at the depower strap/top of CL line. Irrelevant anyway, my point was to depower kite, remove tension from steering lines, stop kite looping and make it easier to unhook lines from SPREADER bar

Yes I use 2 leashes, if the kite was to power up and the leash break (or CL fire by mistake) then the kite will not fly off and pose a danger to other beach goers, it will be held by the second leash attached to the safety. Not sure what doubts you have??

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Toby
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Re: Just another death loop

Postby Toby » Wed May 13, 2015 3:42 pm

easy guys, everyone has different opinions.
Just post yours, no need to bash someone if he has a different opinion.
It is up to us readers to make up our own opinions and conclusions about what you post.

Posting your opinion and view helps to make the sport safer, bashing not.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby marlboroughman » Wed May 13, 2015 4:19 pm


SSK
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Re: Just another death loop

Postby SSK » Wed May 13, 2015 4:43 pm

I mean grabbing the front lines at the depower strap/top of CL line.
That is what I would hope to try, but what is so revealing about this video is that it looks very unliely that is physically possible/probable. At about 32 seconds the lines are completely wound and the bar out of reach. Does anyone think you could reach up and actually depower the kite? I had to do something similar last week when I not so smartly went to test my IDS QR in high winds on a self land. Bar went about 6 inches out then stopped cold. Had to reach up and grab the depower strap, but that is definately not the same as being drug by a spun tight bar.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby JGTR » Wed May 13, 2015 6:36 pm

SSK wrote:
I mean grabbing the front lines at the depower strap/top of CL line.
That is what I would hope to try, but what is so revealing about this video is that it looks very unliely that is physically possible/probable. At about 32 seconds the lines are completely wound and the bar out of reach. Does anyone think you could reach up and actually depower the kite? I had to do something similar last week when I not so smartly went to test my IDS QR in high winds on a self land. Bar went about 6 inches out then stopped cold. Had to reach up and grab the depower strap, but that is definately not the same as being drug by a spun tight bar.
Ok in reality in that situation there really isn't much that could have been done and relying on other people and a bit of luck is the only real option - in overpowered conditions I think he could have been seriously hurt. The issue is complacency combined with bad judgement....why launch like that at all????

Was it a Vegas? Could he not have pulled leash which is connected to 5th line to depowered kite???

Other options???
Knife? - yeah maybe, prob best option but need decent knife and a whole lot of luck to pull it off, then $400 for a new bar
Undo harness? Sorry but unrealistic IMO - wouldn't have worked on my last 2 harnesses and is it achievable when actually being dragged? Won't work with seat harness.
O shits - ok I admit they would work but not many bars have them (I used to retro fit them) and even less people know how to use them properly and could cause kite to loop more.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby edt » Wed May 13, 2015 6:54 pm

like others said once you are death looping on land you better be lucky so you can survive. quite simple how to avoid this. 1) dont self launch unless you have to 2) pull the quick release on a failed launch immediately. everyone wants to fix a bad launch. just throw the safety (or safeties). better to fix spaghetti than be a cowboy. once he is looping and tangled up too bad to release the safety he's going for a little ride. of course you still try to save yourself and try stuff like undoing the harness but this video is a good illustration of how difficult it really is to do things like that.


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