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Custom 5th line release for waves, who knows how?

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wickedwim
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Custom 5th line release for waves, who knows how?

Postby wickedwim » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:57 am

Aloha,

I like my rebel in the waves but not when it rolls over and the 5th line wraps around the kite.
I have heard it is possible to make a system where you can release the fifth line only - from the bar- and ride back to the beach to reset, instead of swimming in.

I imagine some kind of loop to loop mini QR shackle just below the Chicken loop,


anybody has advice?

Cheers

nothing2seehere
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Re: Custom 5th line release for waves, who knows how?

Postby nothing2seehere » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:01 pm

Doesn't sound like a possible idea to me.

The Rebel is a loaded 5th line design. It needs the 5th line to fly properly (unlike the Evo, Neo, dice) as the 5th line is part of the virtual bridle.

There are several stoppers joined at differing heights up the centre lines. You could put a release onto one of these stoppers (or just untie the stopper) but I think you would then have 2 problems.

1. A kite that isn't flying particularly well - possibly even dangerously
2. 20m of kite line threatening to wrap around your legs/rocks/sea weed/ other

Out of interest where did you hear it was possible?

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edt
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Re: Custom 5th line release for waves, who knows how?

Postby edt » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:01 pm

I think slingshot still makes the "wave grenade" I think you put it right next the chicken loop $15 or so. All it is, it's a quick release for your 5th line. The purpose for a rebel isn't to make the kite fly properly all you are trying to do when you get the dreaded bow tie is release the 5th line via the wave grenade so you can relaunch the kite and body drag in, you can't really fly the rebel right without the loaded 5th line but you can probably .limp home to shore.

Not sure why this is better than doing a complete release of the kite (less spaghetti?) but I'm not a 5th line kiter.

I'm sure there are plenty here that still use the wave grenade they can explain it better.

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Re: Custom 5th line release for waves, who knows how?

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:02 am

Maybe the wave grenade would work? But I don't think it would work with the North Bar.

The North 5th line safety is a spliced line and the front lines only split off about halfway up. Cutting the lines at the bottom (temporarily) would potentially also remove the front lines at the same time.

For OP.
Seems that the 5th line can normally be freed by using a steering line to turn the kite so that the 5th line falls off the side. You can then kite back in and untangle properly.

e.g. http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kite ... inversion/

Not sure how feasible this is in breaking surf though?

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edt
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Re: Custom 5th line release for waves, who knows how?

Postby edt » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:30 am

nothing2seehere wrote:Maybe the wave grenade would work? But I don't think it would work with the North Bar.

The North 5th line safety is a spliced line and the front lines only split off about halfway up. Cutting the lines at the bottom (temporarily) would potentially also remove the front lines at the same time.

For OP.
Seems that the 5th line can normally be freed by using a steering line to turn the kite so that the 5th line falls off the side. You can then kite back in and untangle properly.

e.g. http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kite ... inversion/

Not sure how feasible this is in breaking surf though?
the north rebel actually has 5 tensioned lines coming down to the bar, there are the turning rear lines, there are two center lines that connect to the leading edge near the tips and there is the 5th line that splits into a Y and connects on the leading edge near the middle.

I believe it is possible to throw a wave grenade and then limp home on 4 lines, I would just body drag it.

it also might depend on what year rebel you have, some might work with it some might not. No harm in trying a wave grenade it's only $15

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Re: Custom 5th line release for waves, who knows how?

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:56 pm

edt wrote:
nothing2seehere wrote:Maybe the wave grenade would work? But I don't think it would work with the North Bar.

The North 5th line safety is a spliced line and the front lines only split off about halfway up. Cutting the lines at the bottom (temporarily) would potentially also remove the front lines at the same time.

For OP.
Seems that the 5th line can normally be freed by using a steering line to turn the kite so that the 5th line falls off the side. You can then kite back in and untangle properly.

e.g. http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kite ... inversion/

Not sure how feasible this is in breaking surf though?
the north rebel actually has 5 tensioned lines coming down to the bar, there are the turning rear lines, there are two center lines that connect to the leading edge near the tips and there is the 5th line that splits into a Y and connects on the leading edge near the middle.

I believe it is possible to throw a wave grenade and then limp home on 4 lines, I would just body drag it.

it also might depend on what year rebel you have, some might work with it some might not. No harm in trying a wave grenade it's only $15
Ok. I'll bite. There are 5 lines coming down to the bar, but 2 of them make up the depower.

Have a look at the line diagram on page 6:

https://www.northkiteboarding.com/uploa ... eb_ger.pdf

You can see that that the safety lines below the v (labelled 2b) and the power front line (labelled 5) are interwoven in one another several times before the Y. Releasing tension on the 5th line MAY allow it to pull through but I wouldn't like to bet on it. I imagine the tension on the front lines would stop it flagging through. Later bars are even worse as the 5th line runs through the quick release mechanism reducing the options for where you cut the lines.

You'll want to test this before you take a pair of scissors to the lines in case you end up with an expensive repair.

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Re: Custom 5th line release for waves, who knows how?

Postby edt » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:41 pm

nothing2seehere wrote: Releasing tension on the 5th line MAY allow it to pull through but I wouldn't like to bet on it.
the whole way a 5th line operates is that it is designed to pull easily through that Y. If it didn't the 5th line safety would never work, it would just get stuck. So I am not at all worried about it sticking or whatever, it will slip right through. And you don't cut the 5th line, you undo the thing on the very end of your 5th line, leave the lark's head and add the wave grenade there you can undo it if you want.

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Re: Custom 5th line release for waves, who knows how?

Postby jedi1 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:19 pm

Wave grenade is only possible with bars that have a different trimmer for fifth line or fifth is not trimmable at all i.e. goes slack when you depower the kite.

With North bar you can cut down all your safety line at the bar (2B in the manual), still it will fly well. Tension on the fifth is only on the upper part (above line split, 2A). This way when you pull the vario cleat all 3 lines remain the same tension. This is not possible if want a releasable fifth line, as you would need to release it at the place where lines split. That is why Slingshot had two trimmers on the bar, which sucks because whenever you wanted to depower the kite you would need to trim the fifth line as well.

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edt
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Re: Custom 5th line release for waves, who knows how?

Postby edt » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:53 pm

tks jedi. thought it worked a bit different than that well I guess that answers the question no wave grenade for the rebel wickedwim is going to have to keep swimming.

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Re: Custom 5th line release for waves, who knows how?

Postby sarc » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:22 am

It's easy to do on the Rebel, I have set it up for waves for a few years already and never had a problem.

The idea is that when you release to 5th, the kite will turn belly up and hover about 3m / 10ft over the water and gently drag you back to shore. It's very stable as long as the wind is above 10/12knots (I have done it at 30kn no problem at all).

To do it you need to move the 5th line stopper towards the kite until it's far enough that the back lines will be completely loose when release to 5th (stopper moved about 3-4m back compared to standard North setup, depending on what size is your biggest kite). Take out the thick red line that connects to your safety leash, replace with a longer one; cut the white dyneema line by same amount, tie to the new red line, set up stopper - done (no changes at all above the Y). About 10 minutes work.


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