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3 bars from 3 manufacturers ? Or not

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GregK
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Re: 3 bars from 3 manufacturers ? Or not

Postby GregK » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:19 am

Laughingman wrote: my question...... Why are you tuning your kites to fly with unequal line lengths..
The kites are tuned to fly with equal line lengths. When you tune your bar, you line up all the sleeved loops on the lines. Having the k-p pigtails on the ends of the steering lines doesn't hinder lining up all the lines' sleeved loops. You just ignore the pigtails when tuning.

Been that way for 10 years if I remember right, and never been a problem IMO because it's the same, well documented 10 cm k-p pigtail that needs to go on the rear lines. Most keep that pigtail permanently on the bar steering line ends, or if you prefer, keep it on the kite's steering bridle lines.

To anyone familiar with OR kites it is simple and easy, with lots of the pigtails available, a pair come with a bar and lines and a spare pair come with a kite.

I like having the k-p pigtail on the ends of my steering lines, it make them obvious and easily to differentiate a front lines from a steering line when looking at the ends of the lines.

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Re: 3 bars from 3 manufacturers ? Or not

Postby madworld » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:21 pm

GregK wrote:
Laughingman wrote: my question...... Why are you tuning your kites to fly with unequal line lengths..
The kites are tuned to fly with equal line lengths. When you tune your bar, you line up all the sleeved loops on the lines. Having the k-p pigtails on the ends of the steering lines doesn't hinder lining up all the lines' sleeved loops. You just ignore the pigtails when tuning.

Been that way for 10 years if I remember right, and never been a problem IMO because it's the same, well documented 10 cm k-p pigtail that needs to go on the rear lines. Most keep that pigtail permanently on the bar steering line ends, or if you prefer, keep it on the kite's steering bridle lines.

To anyone familiar with OR kites it is simple and easy, with lots of the pigtails available, a pair come with a bar and lines and a spare pair come with a kite.

I like having the k-p pigtail on the ends of my steering lines, it make them obvious and easily to differentiate a front lines from a steering line when looking at the ends of the lines.


I agree with this statement.

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Laughingman
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Re: 3 bars from 3 manufacturers ? Or not

Postby Laughingman » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:09 pm

GregK wrote:
Laughingman wrote: my question...... Why are you tuning your kites to fly with unequal line lengths..
The kites are tuned to fly with equal line lengths. When you tune your bar, you line up all the sleeved loops on the lines. Having the k-p pigtails on the ends of the steering lines doesn't hinder lining up all the lines' sleeved loops. You just ignore the pigtails when tuning.

Been that way for 10 years if I remember right, and never been a problem IMO because it's the same, well documented 10 cm k-p pigtail that needs to go on the rear lines. Most keep that pigtail permanently on the bar steering line ends, or if you prefer, keep it on the kite's steering bridle lines.

To anyone familiar with OR kites it is simple and easy, with lots of the pigtails available, a pair come with a bar and lines and a spare pair come with a kite.

I like having the k-p pigtail on the ends of my steering lines, it make them obvious and easily to differentiate a front lines from a steering line when looking at the ends of the lines.
Thanks Greg... They also had the same obsolete bar setup for almost 10 years and they finally changed that... may as well get on board with the rest of the industry and simplify their rear line attachments to match as well.

Here's another scenario where this makes no sense.
You have a few different makes of kites, 2 bars, one bar is OR and the other is not. the OR bar center lines stretched so you make the adjustments on the rear line pig tails as instructed... then you decide to rerig and fly your none OR kite, you remove your pigtails..... bar no longer tuned...
or you decide to fly the OR kite with your other bar which is not OR, you leave the adjusted pigtails on the kite... result you have modified the pigtails so they are no longer "equal length" hence making a perfectly tuned bar ... not tuned.

This can go on and on, and while I am sure some devote OR riders have gotten used to this I find it completely ridiculous for the reasons I have listed here and on my other posts.

Line adjustments should be made at the bar end to be equal at the kite end, and the kite should accept a bar with equal line lengths without anything to add or subtract....imho

Cheers
Pete

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Re: 3 bars from 3 manufacturers ? Or not

Postby knotwindy » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:31 pm

well, this is true anytime you have more than 1 kite and bar. The bar should always be tuned with all 4 lines being equal. The adjustments should always be made at the kite end for each kite. They all fly a bit different, some pull slightly to the side, some stall at different angles, some you want to stall at different angles, whatever. Some times you want longer lines, sometimes you want shorter so you want to be able to with any bar to any kite easily. The easiest way is to tune all the bars to equal and adjust each kite at each kite to your preference whether it is an OR or any other make/model. Really no difference if done this way.

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Laughingman
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Re: 3 bars from 3 manufacturers ? Or not

Postby Laughingman » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:34 pm

knotwindy wrote:well, this is true anytime you have more than 1 kite and bar. The bar should always be tuned with all 4 lines being equal. The adjustments should always be made at the kite end for each kite. They all fly a bit different, some pull slightly to the side, some stall at different angles, some you want to stall at different angles, whatever. Some times you want longer lines, sometimes you want shorter so you want to be able to with any bar to any kite easily. The easiest way is to tune all the bars to equal and adjust each kite at each kite to your preference whether it is an OR or any other make/model. Really no difference if done this way.
Except the OR pigtails are included in order to make line adjustments to the bar when your center lines stretch... when really they should be part of the kite and the adjustments should be made at the bar end.

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Re: 3 bars from 3 manufacturers ? Or not

Postby ORSales » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:06 pm

Laughingman wrote:Except the OR pigtails are included in order to make line adjustments to the bar when your center lines stretch... when really they should be part of the kite and the adjustments should be made at the bar end.
Pete, sorry you feel I am being evasive... I try pretty hard to stay on top of these threads but they do get away on me.

Couple things to review here.

1) The new Control bar ships with 4x pigtails. 2 for use with our kite (making the 2x back lines longer). There are 2 extra pigtails as well. These can be used to a) make all 4 lines equal and compatible with other kites on the market and, b) allow you to swap inside / outside depending on the kites on the market configurations. (For example, Ozone puts their knotted end on the inside lines not the outside).

2) all of our bars, this Control Bar included have rear line length adjustments close to the bar side of the lines. Specific to the Control Bar, the adjustment knots are under a back line leader neoprene cover and appropriately labelled.

John
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Re: 7 bars from 7 manufacturers ? Or not

Postby Kykeon » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:18 pm

ok, so far we had:
Takoon
BWS
ikon
Ocean Rodeo
Gin
Cautionkites

and I think Peter Lynn was not mentioned:
http://www.peterlynn.com/accessories/de ... ntrol-bar/

In general I like this bar. Lean, clean and simple.
Not sure if all cousins have a high Y

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Kykeon
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Re: 7 bars from 7 manufacturers ? Or not

Postby Kykeon » Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:28 am

Kykeon wrote:ok, so far we had:
Takoon
BWS
ikon
Ocean Rodeo
Gin
Cautionkites

and I think Peter Lynn was not mentioned:
http://www.peterlynn.com/accessories/de ... ntrol-bar/

In general I like this bar. Lean, clean and simple.
Not sure if all cousins have a high Y
2 more:
http://stormkitesurfing.net/produit/barre-storm-52-cm/
http://www.kspsports.com/en/kites-bars/ ... lines.html

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ORSales
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Re: 3 bars from 3 manufacturers ? Or not

Postby ORSales » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:51 pm

Just want to emphasize that beyond the chicken loop that is shared these bars are different from ours. We spent considerable time making small but meaningful changes to the bar and rigging. We have been quite happy with the CL head tho.

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Re: 3 bars from 3 manufacturers ? Or not

Postby Peert » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:16 pm

ORSales wrote: I suppose you could say that this CL head is becoming a form of an industry standard and we feel this is a good thing. Your safety matters and this release system has proven to be reliable over the last couple of seasons it's been available.

John Z ~ OR
Industry standard?
Should CL be industy standard? Less than 10 of all kitesurfers unhook. The CL setup is designed just to do that.....

I would love to see a KISS design like BRM's bar as industry standard. IMHO this would not have to cost 400 euro as well. Also no industry standard long handle pass leashes anymore please....


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