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Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridle

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mede
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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby mede » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:35 am

@BillHansen:
Do you plan to fit the spider bridle to the Element Kite as well? From what I understand from the spider bridle design, it should benefit greatly, too.

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby flysurfing » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:09 pm

Hansen Design wrote:Hello Flysurfing:
Spider is nothing like the Slingshot RPM bridle. The Spider de-couples the SLE part from the AOA/tipping part. The only thing that moves is the front towpoint located by the lower two risers. The Spider is simple, direct, short and effective. It is also very smooth without any pulleys. :thumb:
flysurfing wrote:isnt it similar to what Slinghsot release last year ?
Nitro5-7000.jpg
Hello Bill,

Thanks for the explanation. Your design seems very interesting and innovative. I wish this was a feature on the Nitro 4 as i had some issue with Bridle Lenght.

I hope i can try the V5 soon

Cheers.

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby pmaggie » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:54 pm

I'm not so expert to understand if something will be really innovative only by looking at the advertising stuff. Anyway, I think it's a very good thing when something new and potentially innovative appears. Maybe we will discover it's not the philosopher's stone, maybe in two years every kite will follow this path. Any innovation (or attempt of innovation, for the most negatives) is far better than the same kite of the previous year with a brand new graphic and a lot of blablabla and videos of pros enjoying the most fantastic conditions in the universe.

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby JBZ » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:13 pm

The test of time will be the real answer...i was excited this morning when i woke up, saw the email from switch that the nitro 5 has been released. I am excited to see one in action...and maybe get my hands on one.

The feedback on the spider bridle will all get posted here as time goes by and we will all know if this is the path to a better product or just hype. I believe that the switch team has done an exorbitant amount of testing and by looking at it think they are onto something.

I have been impressed with switch. Guys keep it up.

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby Hansen Design » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:22 pm

@ Westozzy - I've already put in my request to attend the next shoot so I can kite there. No wetsuit, clear water, sand! All Switch kites are 5th line capable. :thumb:

@ Plummet - Thanks for your support! :thumb:

@ Foilholio - If you have a pic of an inflato with a Spider bridle, please post it. Always interested to see what others have tried. Switch Labs is working on some very exciting new projects. Our thinking is only influenced by broad experience, experimentation and practicality. I stand by my comments on strutless. It has a niche and is interesting but I see it as an unnecessary compromise for the mainstream. I love foils and have designed many (Slingshot B Series and many others.) I've attached a pic of a proto I still use as a desktop (note the rider - Felix.) Again, I see the complexity, expense and compromise unnecessary for the mainstream but they do have potential. At Switch, we've decided to leave foils to the paragliding experts for now.
SKFoil1.jpg
Dihedral provides inherent roll stability with a self-compensating lift differential at the expense of lift-losing spanwise flow. It works great in some aircraft, Turkey Vultures and single line kites. In multiple-line kites, it is uneeded since the lines provide a far greater degree of roll stability. I have tried it several times and found absolutely no benefit for kiteboarding use. So, you might say I'm stuck in my ways but it is based on experience rather than prejudice. Thanks for your support! :thumb:

@ Mede - We have been testing Spider bridles on all of our SLE models. :thumb:

@ Flysurfing - Thanks! There is more on this subject on the Switch forum :thumb:

@ Pmaggie - We are always looking to improve. The Spider is a result of that effort. :thumb:

@ JBZ - Agree that time will tell. Thanks! :thumb:

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby kitexpert » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:33 am

Well, I see that bridle as a one in which three most center primary lines are cascaded together and continued by secondary line to the frontlines. Line from the tip goes straight to the frontline attachment point. One added cross line goes from tip to the point where three primary lines come together, this is the new line.

It would be interesting to test kite with and without that new line.

I have used nitros, especially upwind ability was great. Switch quality is high. Smooth LE curve, classic and solid five struts construction and really nice workmanship.

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby foilholio » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:04 am

Thanks for the reply. But it seems the point is missed somewhat entirely. It is probably based on experience or lack there of. I'll make my intention clearer. Foils, strutless, and lastly dihedral, point and intention, to be more stable with NO line tension, and therefore NO control input. Foils and strutless do it better than the rest. Would be great to see more development in that area. Lightweight, balance and a depowered profile that creates drag seems to work well. Hence the cloud and triple depower foils work well at it. ARCs were extremely good at it, so maybe balance is the key.

I never said I saw an inflatable with cross bridling, only foil kites. But come to think of it, I remember some use of bridling from tip to tip in C kites to prevent the arc opening. Also anti inversion lines on Ozones first inflatables. But nothing exactly as this spider bridle.

Yes foil kites are complex. But that does not mean they cant be user friendly. They certainly are reliable. There is just some tuff found design rules with them, broken they don't work well. Case in point look at the photo you have provided. It seems an ARC with bridles, "I may be wrong". Seems smart on the outset, use sticks to reduce the bridles. Because every kite designer knows the big problem with foils is their bridles , rolls eyes:-/ Anyway but now you have your big sticks getting stuck in your bridles. The fool would say that's them bridles again always causing trouble, rolls eyes:-/ ,and give up. Or you look at flysurfer, stream lining every connection so nothing can tangle easy and not using big sticks, that bend and break.

As for paragliding experts, look at all the flaws in Ozone's Chrono 0.5, 0.7 and 1, anyone would think foils cant relaunch, bridles always break and need replacing which requires a week to do and after a short while everything is out of tune and there is no way to fix it. Also add "Ozone the expert paraglider maker" originally tried that bridled ARC concept maybe 8 years ago and gave up on waterfoil kites shortly after, well until winning races became important. I still remember Armin talking about when flysurfer started, "they used paraglider designs with closed cells, then shortly found out they don't work well for water".

Anyway utmost respect to you Bill for replying. Switch really make great top quality products. Just hope you'll occasionally reconsider old notions. A lot of prejudice is valid, but it's not the whole that is at fault, just some of it's parts.
Last edited by foilholio on Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby Hansen Design » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:23 am

Hello Foilholio:
I find your post interesting. I agree slack line stability is worth striving for as long as the kite doesn't fly itself into a disastrous area waiting to power up. I can't say I've done it all but I have made a large variety of experimental kites, many of which were displayed here over the years. I have learned by doing as a self-improvement exercise. This effort, going on for many years and thousands of hours of concentrated effort, along with technical training is the foundation of my design thinking.

Closed-Cell Sled foil
AR6-3B.JPG
Hybrid Ram/Inflato
WWStaple1 copy.jpg
Dihedral/Anhedral Inflato
Mutant2.jpg
Mutant2.jpg (34.67 KiB) Viewed 882 times
High Aspect/High PA Monostrut
MS12-1b.jpg
MS12-1b.jpg (100.11 KiB) Viewed 882 times

But, we have departed far from the topic which is the new Spider bridle found on the Nitro5. It is a simple construct that directly addresses certain complex problems including de-powered stability.
Cheers! :thumb: :thumb:

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby foilholio » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:59 am

Drifting into the powerzone is never a problem with enough depower on the bar.

Interesting how many kite designers have dabbled in ARCs, Reinhart from flysurfer comes to mind.

I'll leave it at that, well off topic. Hopefully when more people learned how to use the new generation of wave kites, more people will have interest in the subject.

Cheers

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby alamos_kiter » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:40 pm

Thanks for sharing Bill! Interesting approach.

The spider principle has been used on kites, although in different ways, but with the same final goal:

- on stunt kites: http://wardley.org/kites/bridle/active.html

- on PL ARCs:



Keep on the good work. Cheers, Alamos
bridle.jpg


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