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Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridle

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BWD
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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby BWD » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:39 pm

great thread here....
semi-random thoughts:
some use of bridling from tip to tip in C kites to prevent the arc opening.
An example of cross-bridling is line between tips of rrd type wave II, vintage 2005. Most riders found this line superfluous I think. Maybe also was supposed to save kite from 5th sawing it in half in wave crashes?
I was tempted to try one but instead just copied the bar design, that was the real innovation with this kite -dynamic 5th line to a CL pulley attached to floating collar on the bar. I added a cleat and this let me run a 15m fuel with as much or as little bar pressure as desired, up to 25mph instead of 20. It was a cool innovation for C kites of the day, for me it was a hack to get better performance and wind range. With more modern kites it seems a needless complication.
strutless. It has a niche and is interesting but I see it as an unnecessary compromise for the mainstream.
Funny since I went strutless I have more wind range and end up upwind of everyone else, and can chase waves that would have almost any other lei stalling or overflying. Only real compromise is less explosive boosts. Pumping up in half the time and weighing ~30% less would be just a bonus except actually it's key to the performance. Weight would matter even more if I flew to kite. Stability and pop are great for wakestyle pop or wave jumps, but usually I ride old man style hooked in and strapless 85%. Speed records and course racing are not mainstream so I discount those possible shortfalls. Horses for courses, to each his own, and I do still whip out a strutted LEI sometimes...

Mr H, the examples of your work over the years are interesting as always, among other things it's interesting to see the same things done for opposite reasons and likely in hope of producing opposite results, in different designs. And vice versa, ha ha!

So as others pointed out, bridles that pull this way or that way with or without a pulley have been done, but it seems smart and innovative to keep the application on the front of the kite though. interesting.

Now bring on the video B roll and show us some hard kitelooping, relaunches, overpowered riding etc.

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby Hansen Design » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:46 pm

@ Foilholio - All good then! :thumb:

@ Alamos_kiter - Can't agree 100%. PL Arcs are not SLE's. They have no bridle. The wingtip applications you show simply do not apply. Swept-wing delta stunt kites (I've designed several highly successful ones) are generally two-liners but do have multiple lines coming to a point. So be it.

@ BWD - The strutless vs strutted debate reminds me of the soft vs full-battened vs hard-wing yacht sail debate as well as the RAF vs camber-Induced windsurf sail debate. In each case, the more structured device has generally won out and become the standard of performance. Granted, less structure may have a place in wave riding and Greg has done an admirable job in developing strutless kites (albeit with a large wingtip structure.) My experience with multiple test kites leads me to believe a center strut is the best way to increase the camber in a stable way for a larger range of sheeting, stability and balance/bar pressure sheeted out.

General Statement
You guys along with Edt and Starsky, among others posting on here, are in my book extremely knowledgeable and experienced on the subject of kite design and I enjoy discussing it with you, even if we may disagree. Regarding the Spider bridle, I'm reminded of a few astute sayings: "If you can imagine it, someone has probably tried it." And, "It is what you learn after you know it all that counts." That said, I would really like to see where it has been done on a 4-line SLE inflatable kite to achieve the function of supporting/controlling shape while allowing the freedom to de-power. It is a simple construct, very easy to make and works (so far in our testing) on a variety of kites. Eliminates pulleys, is tangle-free and very smooth, blah, blah, blah... :thumb:

BWD
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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby BWD » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:30 pm

Your surmise or memory that I fly clouds is right.
If you haven't actually flown the clouds and checked out at least the shaping and layout and how it is not really as simple as it looks, you ought to. Firsthand experience, and I would say at least 10 hours of it, is what it takes to get the advantages. And yes there are some times I think, "this would be more fun with another kite," but quite few. Not trying to sell them.
Anyway, I am not into a strut versus no strut argument. My Fuels boost and loop way different from my clouds and I wouldn't have it any other way. And if I wanted to race or max out at 50 instead of 30 I would fly some other kites. Some with struts, some not!
Thanks for the kind words and keep on innovating.

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby alamos_kiter » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:26 pm

No criticism at all from my side, to the contrary: I found that shifting tow point has been targeted with a number of approaches, on many different kinds of kites. The one solution which turned out to be most stable is the pulley-less one, and the "spider" setup - however it is woven - does have very good results. Independently, on most different structures like 2 line stunt kites (area wise), ARCs (wingtip), and now LEIs (span wise), it works really well. Very crisp and controlled, compared to solutions using pulleys. A bit like nature itself, using a proven construction principle over a range of species. :thumb:

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby kitexpert » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:37 am

Mr. Hansen, can you shortly explain why modern LEIs are so stable? They usually don't front stall and they tolerate well gusts and even drift with slacking lines. Which are the most important factors? Airfoil, AR, kite shape (2D, plan view), bridle...?

How much high performance and good stability are opposite targets in kite design?

How much relaunchability affects in kite design? Is poor relaunch main reason for not existing high AR LEI's?

And for Spider, did you test it without the line from wingtip to 5 line junction point? I can't see very big loads in that line. Higher AoA's load increases, right?

In any case I like how that bridle looks. In N2 bridle was longer and relaunch could have been better. Otherwise I liked it too. And keep that solid 5 strut concept!

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby Hansen Design » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:57 am

Hello Kitexpert:
Lots of questions - enough to write a dissertation!
Suffice to say (big picture view) there are many competing brands continually striving to make their kites better by retaining the positives and eliminating deficiencies. Each design is a unique blend of parameters (many which you have mentioned) where different combinations can have a similar outcome. That results in better performance and more user-friendly handling in an evolutionary way. At the moment (in inflatos,) the evolutionary trend is toward moderate-aspect, 3 strut, SLE-bridled, open 'C' kites. Sorry for such a general answer but your individual questions require a level of detail beyond the scope of a single forum post. :thumb:

Regarding the Spider bridle, yes we have tested it with line 4 to the wingtip removed. The result is basically a simple bridge bridle with an extraneous line 2. The kite will fly in this configuration but the many advantages of the fixed Spider junction are lost.

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby marlboroughman » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:36 pm

I am no expert on kite design but have been using the open C concept since 2009 Airush Vapor and I am currently on N4. Both these kites fly perfect on five lines so you can experiment if you like. Five lines always worked the best for me. Airush had a superb short bridle but depower was seriously limited so there are always shortcomings. Basically from my experience speaking plainly I like to have the centre of the kite supported, low bar pressure so front lines moved back but depower at the same time and free wings so they can tilt in the turns. So this new spider bridle goes to the core of those issues. If I want more, it's play time with five lines and the bar and the open C platform is perfect for experiments like that.

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby Westozzy » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:34 am

Marlborough man, it's not a loaded fifth though is it? So it's not a point of extra support, just using it as it's safety line right?

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby flying piranha » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:58 am

Another great example of why incremental enhancements are a good thing. In the tests so far it appears all the things we love about the Nitro 4& 5 have been preserved – while improving the overall package.
The most significant change from the Nitro 4 is the brand new bridal system.
Advantages: tighter flying characteristics, safer self launch, quicker turns. Water Relaunch has improved over the N4 which is great as it lowers the barrier to try new tricks. I also noticed a more friendly drift behavior when being pushed by a wave.

I do recommend flying it on the shortest back knots for the extra punch.
Overall assessment: great kite w/ massive boost even in relatively light wind, even quicker, more controllable turning and awesome low-end with a slightly lighter bar feel for the every day warrior.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Send It!!!

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Re: Switch Kiteboarding Launches New Innovative Spider Bridl

Postby marlboroughman » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:02 am

Westozzy wrote:Marlborough man, it's not a loaded fifth though is it? So it's not a point of extra support, just using it as it's safety line right?
Always loaded no bridle at all.


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