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Kite Bars with other brand kites

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jb92563
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Kite Bars with other brand kites

Postby jb92563 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:30 pm

Can you use different brand bars with various kites?

I have a pair of nice North Trust Bars but I'd like to try other brand kites and save the expense of more bars.

I understand that each kite will probably have different line lengths but I was thinking that I could made a set of extension lines for each different kite so they would all work with the North bars that I have.

When you buy a kite all you need to know is the correct line lengths for each line and then build your set of adapter line extensions to get the right length with your existing bar lines.

You would simply leave the extensions on the kite all the time.

I know some bars are longer or shorter so an adjustable length or have two bars in different sizes may be necessary.

Can anyone think of a reason why that's not a good idea or should not be done.

It would sure save on bar costs and redundant equipment.
It would also free you from brand loyalty as there would be no reason to stay with any particular brand kite and free you to buy the best kite for the size and style you want it for.

This concept would also improve Brand development as there would be more competition for the Best product in every category and Bars could be built with the best features and brand agnostic.

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Laughingman
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Re: Kite Bars with other brand kites

Postby Laughingman » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:51 pm

You mean different line lengths as in from 20m to say 24m or do you mean different line lengths like the steering lines are longer or shorter then the center lines?

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Re: Kite Bars with other brand kites

Postby Lokihel » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:02 pm

As far as I know, all kite brands have all four lines at equal lengths when fully powered. It just makes it a lot easier to check if your lines have stretched.

The main factor will be most likely be the height of the front line split.
For example, some brands will have the lines split about 20m from the kite, right above the depower cleat. Other brands may have a very high split point, say 5m away from the kite.

You can 'cheat' the height of the split point by adding extensions, as it is the distance from the kite that actually matters.
For example, if you have 22m lines with the split 7m away from the kite, and you want a bar with the split 10m away from the kite, you could add 3m extensions (and end up with 25m lines).

This of course within reason. North has got a relatively high split point. If you need to add 10m extensions to get to the correct split point (still measuring from the kite), you may want to consider buying another bar, or modifying one of your bars.

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Re: Kite Bars with other brand kites

Postby ragzilla » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:04 pm

in short....
YES

just check that your north bars arent 5 line.... coz it may not work on a 4 line kite... obviously

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Re: Kite Bars with other brand kites

Postby reyrivera » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:07 pm

I think this has been discussed here before, maybe do a search on bars.
Short answer: Yes, with some modifications and testing with your kite and bar.
Long Answer: It can get complicated, some kites like bars with low center V split, and fly like an elephant on a pogo stick with a high center V split. And vice versa, some kites like high center V splits.

Me, personally, I make my own bars with low V split to fly on different kites that work well with this system.

Try your bar on your other brand kite and experiment.

What kite will you fly on your North bar? You will get good help if your question is a bit more specific.

jb92563
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Re: Kite Bars with other brand kites

Postby jb92563 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:23 pm

reyrivera wrote: What kite will you fly on your North bar? You will get good help if your question is a bit more specific.
I am begining to see that there are a few variables I did not think of like the split height.

As far as being more specific, I am thinking about an OR Flite or other light wind kite.

I think I will have to look at each prospect individually as the kites have a few different variations of line systems and one bar fits all (with a set of line length adapters) does not seem very likely.

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Re: Kite Bars with other brand kites

Postby edt » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:10 am

there's 9 kinds of control bars

1) mini-5th control bar with high Y
2) mini-5th control bar with low Y
3) true 5th line with high Y
4) true 5th line with low Y
5) single line flagging with V (95% of all post 2014 control bars are of this kind)
6) 2:1 bar with pulleys (popular from 1996 when bridled kites became popular until about 2010 when people figured out how to design better kites)
7) tensioned 5th line kites (they all have high Y I believe if they are tensioned). Vegas C kite, North Rebel, Naish Torch fit here.
8 ) single line flagging with Y, slingshot used to have a bar like this
9) whatever that core thing is somewhere half between single line flagging and mini-5th I think it should work with most kites.

All line sets from about 2010 onwards are equal line and pretty much all control bars will attach to all kites now. Pretty much all modern kites will work with #5 type of control bar, so you can swap just about any bar and kite nowadays (attaching the necessary pigtails). The exceptions are if you have a kite or control bar in one of the other 7 categories. Mini-5th control bars were popular but it requires a certain type of bridle because the bridle is flagging the kite out not the control bar. Due to the limitations on kite design kite manufacturers thus gave up on making the mini-5th, tho plenty of rider still like them. You need to test it with your kite if you want to use a mini-5th with it. A true 5th line control bar can be used with any kite but that high Y pinches the kite in so sometimes the kite won't be powered on a high Y. I believe all the ocean rodeo kites are design to work properly with a high Y. Most kites that are designed to fly with a high Y work fine with a V, though the opposite is not true, the kites that are designed to work with a V normally don't fly well on a high Y.

Unless you are actually swapping between a 4 line kite and a 5 line kite you can usually get just one control bar to work with various brands of kites.

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Re: Kite Bars with other brand kites

Postby Laughingman » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:43 pm

All line sets from about 2010 onwards are equal line and pretty much all control bars will attach to all kites now. Pretty much all modern kites will work with #5 type of control bar, so you can swap just about any bar and kite nowadays (attaching the necessary pigtails)
This is true except for Ocean Rodeo kites, these kites require a longer pig tail on the steering lines... so all lines equal plus the pig tail added to the steering lines which is supplied with the kite and it is approximately 6" long.
I met 3 people this week who owned OR kites (purchased used) who did not know they about the pigtails and were experiencing stalling.

Also the new OR kites are backwards compatible, meaning they work on today's standard of a single center line flag and also work with the two line rollover which I believe would be #1 and #2 of edt's list.

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Re: Kite Bars with other brand kites

Postby Bushflyr » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:55 pm

Laughingman wrote:This is true except for Ocean Rodeo kites, these kites require a longer pig tail on the steering lines... so all lines equal plus the pig tail added to the steering lines which is supplied with the kite and it is approximately 6" long.
Or even longer. My OR Razor 7m needed about 24" of pigtail on the back to fly right with an equal length line set. :-?

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Laughingman
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Re: Kite Bars with other brand kites

Postby Laughingman » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:05 pm

Bushflyr wrote:
Laughingman wrote:This is true except for Ocean Rodeo kites, these kites require a longer pig tail on the steering lines... so all lines equal plus the pig tail added to the steering lines which is supplied with the kite and it is approximately 6" long.
Or even longer. My OR Razor 7m needed about 24" of pigtail on the back to fly right with an equal length line set. :-?
LOL were you connecting directly to the kite? As in was there no rear steering line lead attached to the kite?


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