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Foolkookio & Ridiculous Light Wind Claims

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FredBGG
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Re: Foolkookio & Ridiculous Light Wind Claims

Postby FredBGG » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:21 pm

Tone wrote: So where I live, the wind is a lot more dense than many other places on the planet, for example Brazil where Toby rides a 18m kite in 25 knots. If he were to do that here his feet wouldn't touch the ground!
When was the last time Toby's feet touched the ground or the water for more that a second or two? :thumb: :thumb:

He has not got to the feet touching the ground level yet. He's still trying to figure out how to keep his feet in his footstaps. :thumb: :thumb:

Image


On a more serious note..... nearly all wind meters use impellers the would be effected by air density. Most meters will read higher speeds in denser winds.

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Re: Foolkookio & Ridiculous Light Wind Claims

Postby alamos_kiter » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:51 pm

FredBGG wrote:... Most meters will read higher speeds in denser winds.
I doubt this very much within the range of air density we have to deal with.

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Re: Foolkookio & Ridiculous Light Wind Claims

Postby PullStrings » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:33 pm

Air density is an invisible power
Here is one way to look at it from a kite canopy point of view
This is not scientific at all but just a visual example since we cannot "see" wind

Let's say that your 17 sqm kite canopy has hundreds of one inch holes spread out evenly across it every 6 inches
It would "catch" less of the light wind and pull the rider much less making him plane poorly

Same thing with light wind... it can have a certain "speed " but what you don't realize it that it could be full of holes ( poor density) therefore giving the rider "less pull" on his lines

So it's way better that the light wind be like solid cheddar than like holy swiss cheese...but no anemometer can figure that one out

That's just my theory :D ridiculous or not

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Re: Foolkookio & Ridiculous Light Wind Claims

Postby foilholio » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:47 am

Related to propeller types https://www.renewablenrgsystems.com/ser ... anemometer
Simply put, lift based devices with an air-foil such as wind turbines are affected by changes in air density, drag based devices such as cup anemometers are not affected by air density.

This is for tube types https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemomete ... asurements
Effect of density on measurements
In the tube anemometer the dynamic pressure is actually being measured, although the scale is usually graduated as a velocity scale. If the actual air density differs from the calibration value, due to differing temperature, elevation or barometric pressure, a correction is required to obtain the actual wind speed. Approximately 1.5% (1.6% above 6,000 feet) should be added to the velocity recorded by a tube anemometer for each 1000 ft (5% for each kilometer) above sea-level.


Interesting http://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/5/3/683 https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ir_Density

"I think" the answer "may" be in there. I mean Deviation_of_Cup_and_Propeller_Anemometer_Calibration_Results_with_Air_Density ;-)
Abstract
The effect of air density variations on the calibration constants of several models of anemometers has been analyzed. The analysis was based on a series of calibrations between March 2003 and February 2011. Results indicate a linear behavior of both calibration constants with the air density. The effect of changes in air density on the measured wind speed by an anemometer was also studied. The results suggest that there can be an important deviation of the measured wind speed with changes in air density from the one at which the anemometer was calibrated, and therefore the need to take this effect into account when calculating wind power estimations.

http://barani.biz/kb/air-density-change ... o-weather/
10% air density error due to Weather (temperature, pressure and humidity) may severely limit accuracy of your wind energy calculations rendering your anemometer accuracy irrelevant.
and some interesting calculations on density changes
Air Density Change Examples:

Relative Humidity change from 30% to 90% can change air density by 1% at 31°C (88°F). At 22°C (72°F) air density change is 0.6% and 0.4% at 15°C (59°F).
Air temperature change from winter to summer (5°C to 32°C, 41°F to 90°F) can change air density by as much as 10%.
Elevation height change of only 82 meters (270′ vertical feet) from sea level can change air density by 1%. (101325Pa -100344Pa =981 Pascals)
Weather front pressure changes range from 980 and 1050 hPa which corresponds to a 7% fluctuation in air density.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Zj4_v ... &q&f=false around page 135

books are great ;-)?
Air density has an effect upon the threshold speed and distance constant of cup and
propeller anemometers. The threshold speed is inversely proportional to the density
because it represents a balance between the aerodynamic force and the friction forces
in the anemometer bearings.
What that means is density is more likely to change the wind reading at lower speeds like we are discussing. i.e. lower wind readings are more likely to represent actual wind power and not just speed.

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Re: Foolkookio & Ridiculous Light Wind Claims

Postby PullStrings » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:35 am

foilholio wrote:What that means is .......
........... Image

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Re: Foolkookio & Ridiculous Light Wind Claims

Postby foilholio » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:58 am

cheesywind.png
cheesywind.png (72.48 KiB) Viewed 993 times

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Re: Foolkookio & Ridiculous Light Wind Claims

Postby 14ToeSide » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:26 am

Now somebody just needs to CUT the cheese after YOGA!!!

:anon: :anon: :anon: :desperado: :desperado: :kiff: :housewife: :holiday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday:

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Re: Foolkookio & Ridiculous Light Wind Claims

Postby PullStrings » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:44 pm

:D Foolk ( you put up the wrong cheese)...now that's the cheddar i'm talking about...solid and dense....will make a fart of a wind...be a lot more powerful

Image

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Re: Foolkookio & Ridiculous Light Wind Claims

Postby PullStrings » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:46 pm

foolkookio wrote: Oh and the power is 8 times stronger (cubed) when comparing a 8 knot wind to a 4 knot wind
Wrong .......again


" Wind force- knots to lbs / square foot "

Wind force :
Force per square foot experienced when wind is blowing perpendicular to a surface
This might be counter intuitive , when wind speeds increase from 10 to 15 knots the force doubles

When wind speed doubles the force exerted increases by a factor of 4
If the force at 30 kn is 3.6 lbs / square foot then the force at 60 kn calculates out to 14.4 lbs / square foot.

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Re: Foolkookio & Ridiculous Light Wind Claims

Postby Bille » Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:49 pm

PullStrings wrote:
foolkookio wrote: Oh and the power is 8 times stronger (cubed) when comparing a 8 knot wind to a 4 knot wind
Wrong .......again


" Wind force- knots to lbs / square foot "

Wind force :
Force per square foot experienced when wind is blowing perpendicular to a surface
This might be counter intuitive , when wind speeds increase from 10 to 15 knots the force doubles

When wind speed doubles the force exerted increases by a factor of 4
If the force at 30 kn is 3.6 lbs / square foot then the force at 60 kn calculates out to 14.4 lbs / square foot.
I mostly think of that when flying a kite with a land buggy ; they accelerate fast, and
have less drag so Ya really start feeling the kite pull Ya at speed.

Bille


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