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Mossy 757
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Re: bulk line

Postby Mossy 757 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:08 pm

There's a 1.3mm that has a breaking strength of 270kg and 1.5mm with 360kg. It's called "kite line race" by Marlow Ropes.

snowycreek
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Re: bulk line

Postby snowycreek » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:15 pm

Hey dracop. Is that bulk line that the retailer will supply? I am thinking that I would like a spool of the 301. Can you let me know which retailer it is?

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dracop
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Re: bulk line

Postby dracop » Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:28 am

Mossy 757 wrote:
dracop wrote:lol yeah but I need a group for that!

Right now I gots nobody.

Also, I am less interested in cheap line and more interested in high quality line at the lowest cost. I wish to try this Liros material - they have a 1.6mm 540 daN version of the DC-401 that Core is using (Core chose something lighter). Im thinking a 100m spool for my flying lines and a 100m spool of a lighter weight for my steering lines. Anyone interested in either ?
Sk99 is the state of the art right now. The Liros DC series is sk75. Not saying it's not good, but if quality is your goal you can't beat sk99 dyneema.
FYI, my thoughts were just confirmed - the new DC-201/301/401 series uses SK99

Here is a link to the product brochure (the website still has DC-200/300/400 on same page as 201/301/401) and has not been updated to differentiate between the two lines yet.

http://www.liros.com/fileadmin/user_upl ... 0-2016.pdf

foilholio
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Re: bulk line

Postby foilholio » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:52 am

Most of this has been discussed before viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2391167 even some places to buy the liros stuff.

Another option to dyneema sk99 is spectra 375 ht, I posted about it here viewtopic.php?t=2392941.

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dracop
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Re: bulk line

Postby dracop » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:48 pm

foilholio wrote:Most of this has been discussed before viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2391167 even some places to buy the liros stuff.

Another option to dyneema sk99 is spectra 375 ht, I posted about it here viewtopic.php?t=2392941.
Thank you for those links and for all the research you did. I read thru all of it, you appear to have come to the same conclusions I came to based upon the same lines of reasoning. I chose a different retailer based out of GER vs England.

I did pay attention to alamos_kiter's constant coomentary on abrasion, however given the fact I am stretching all of my lines to the 9s, never drag my lines, and wash my lines after each use, I believe abrasion is not the chief culprit.

Design wise, I am flying Naish Torch with Shift system and Fusion 5 line bars - both of which use a high Y split where the two flying lines connect via a heavy duty Y connector to a single lower line that runs down to the bar (eg all of the power of the kite is coming down via ONE spectra line). Naish uses sub-SK75 (something weaker than SK75) and has not updated their LINES (not the bar, the line material) in years as comparing their latest bars the line material is identical lines from years ago. Liros testing article stating breaking strength of 240 kg confirms my real life experience of stretching out Naish lines in less than a month and breaking my flying lines often at 110kg riding in 30-50 kts (Maui and Cape Town) throwing loops. I recently cannabalized a Slingshot bar with those heavy duty center lines and used those to create a custom bar for my Torches using SS lines and a 2013 Shift system (straps, 5th line, and QR/CL). That bar is what has kept me riding while my Naish Fusion and Shift bars all keep getting broken, repair after repair. My conclusion is I need better lines and its not all abrasion given the major stretching problems I am expeeriecning. The DESIGN of running all of the power thru a single line requires a heavier duty line on that lower section of the flying Y lines than standard DYneema. Q-Power Pro looks interesting but again, at 275 kg breaking strength, I want something stronger for that lower Y section. I do understand what they say about the tight weave not letting in foreign material - it would be a dream if they updated their lines with the newer sk-99 and went for a heavier duty version. Shame, I contacted kiteboarding.com but thery never responded, as is I am importing in two spools of Liros dc-401/301 and will have to pay someone on Maui to finish my lines.

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edt
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Re: bulk line

Postby edt » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:57 pm

dracop wrote:Q-Power Pro looks interesting but again, at 275 kg breaking strength, I want something stronger for that lower Y section. I do understand what they say about the tight weave not letting in foreign material - it would be a dream if they updated their lines with the newer sk-99 and went for a heavier duty version. Shame, I contacted kiteboarding.com but thery never responded, as is I am importing in two spools of Liros dc-401/301 and will have to pay someone on Maui to finish my lines.
dracop i'm not really sure I understand. You can buy amsteel blue dyneema sk78 1/8th inch (that's 3mm) at pretty much any place in the usa this is 2,500 pound breaking strength. Why aren't you using that for your center line? That's definitely strong enough. Then you want to make a couple splices (or pay someone to splice it for you). 3mm is about the same size as a small leader line. I wouldn't use any normal kite line for the Y part of a line. Kite line is pretty much by definition something that is under 1.8mm in width, so you aren't going to get much above 800 pounds breaking strength from it even with sk78 or sk99. Anyway that's what I would use and it's easy to buy, unlike kiteboarding line which can be tricky to source and buy retail. If I were to go with kite line or q-power I would double or triple it for the Y and that works but it's not very pretty looking. If you are in south africa then you can't get amsteel blue but there's some other sailing rope that does the exact same thing I forget where you get it from.

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dracop
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Tableview - Cape Town, South Africa
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Mui Ne Bay - Ham Tien, Vietnam
Style: Big Air :D
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Re: bulk line

Postby dracop » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:22 pm

I looked into Amsteel but the skinniest they have is 7/64". This new Liros DC-401 material is 580 kg breaking strength vs Amteel 7/64" coming in at 725 kg. Amsteel is 2.5mm fat vs DC-401 being 1.6mm fat, with fatter diameter's causing performance issues. This is an 11m section of line not a leader.

The kite manufacturer simply uses standard dyneema with a 240kg breaking strength and identical to the steering and upper Y section lines for that lower Y section and it does work for a time. So I figure for performance reasons just go with DC-401 plus I avoid having different elasticities (unk effects) on different line types (experienced some weirdness with different elasticities when I first built my SS lines custom bar for the Torch; with SS center lines and Naish steering lines, made it all SS line material on center lines and steering and felt more natural). I hate doing the designer's job for him, especially since Im an unpaid beta test :(

Oh and Core is using DC-301 for their Tectanium lines on the Sensor 2 Pro bar, so its not like Im using an untested product for kiting. Just a different brand's better (and more expensive) solution.

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edt
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Re: bulk line

Postby edt » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:47 pm

ah I get it. You are trying to get that Y skinny so it has less drag. I would just go with the thick stuff see how much drag it gets first. If it doesn't work you still have a good 10 meters worth of 3mm dyneema and you can use that fixing bridles or leaders anyway. I don't think I've ever bought dyneema and had it sit. Always found a use for it, even if it was the wrong size for my current project. It is hard to find that sk78 under 3mm and over 1.8mm. I remember sourcing some 2.2mm dyneema climbing line called "arborist throw line" before, sometimes you can find climbing lines in the 2.5mm size too, can't remember what they are for, sometimes you can find dingy control lines that are sk78 but be careful make sure it's not some other crap like vectrex that stuff is awful for kiteboarding no abrasion resistance. I would also stay away from stuff that is simply labeled "uhmwpe" and not actual trade marked dyneema or spectra line, for kiteboarding we need flexibility and abrasion resistance, if you get something that's uhmwpe but not dyneema, I would just get a small sample to try out before buying a larger length. I have found to my regret (having to swim back a couple times) that the "breaking strength" is not the only important number in a good kite line. Tectanium sounds like a decent line no idea what it's made of. Let us know how it goes. You are really stressing the lines so whatever works for you will be definitely strong enough for the rest of us.

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Re: bulk line

Postby foilholio » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:04 am

dracop wrote: I chose a different retailer based out of GER
Who and how much?

dracop wrote:The kite manufacturer simply uses standard dyneema with a 240kg breaking strength and identical to the steering and upper Y section lines for that lower Y section and it does work for a time.
This is crazy, how can they sell such a thing? They are halving the front line strength! You want every component to be ATLEAST as strong as each other, i.e 240kg front lines equals 480kg single line section. 240kg sounds weak even for the front lines for what you are doing. I would dump the whole Y thing and just use a V.

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dracop
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Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Naish Beach - Kanaha - Maui, HI USA
Favorite Beaches: _
Crandon - Key Biscayne, FL
Sherman Island - Antioch, CA
Crissy Field - San Francisco, CA
Kanaha - Maui, HI
Anne's Beach - Islamorada, FL
Curry Hammocks - Marathon, FL
Kite Beach - Cabarete, Dominican Republic
Tableview - Cape Town, South Africa
Main Beach - Langebaan, South Africa
Mui Ne Bay - Ham Tien, Vietnam
Style: Big Air :D
Gear: _
2014 8m,10m Naish Torch
2014 11m SS RPM
2015 17m Blade Fat Lady v3
2014 Best Breeze 145, 2014 Naish Antic 142, 2017 Core Choice 2 142
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: bulk line

Postby dracop » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:41 am

Lol there is a reason there are so many cheap Naish 5 line bars floating around, everyone wrecks and stretches their lines. My solution is to fix the problem (too weak of a line in that section) instead of just keep buying their lines. But you see my problem in a nutshell!

As far as V vs Y, that would open the canopy up differently, not sure it would work well for the Torch as the kite is very sensitive to canopy shape. I have flown it tightened up in ultra C mode and opened up by pressuring the 5th line and the kite needs a very specific shape to fly the way it needs to.

I will PM you who I am buying the lines from, I do not wish to advertise for or refer a business until I have completed my transaction (defined as receiving my goods in order) since I cant recommend or denounce them yet. So far so good but thats not very far lol


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