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Ocean Rodeo stick shift bar

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Starsky
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Re: Ocean Rodeo stick shift bar

Postby Starsky » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:37 pm

alamos_kiter wrote:I really like the chicken loop. A timeless concept. I also like the ease with wich the long throw of this bar can be used. Look at the rider in your promotional video: usable throw starts at the hight of his chin :D
Dude I am with you on most things, but you bring this point up every time and I don't get it.

A) There is nothing really wrong with the chicken loop and hook system. As long as I own a twin tip, I'll have one.

B) If your not into twin tips and only ride surfboards or foils, then there are good pivot and sliding options out there.

C) Trim distance gained on the rider side of the normal chicken loop and hook system is non ergonomic. I have my sliding trimless system set to personal spec and it's no where near as close to the body as it could be. Look at Drexler's bar. His is probably the shortest set up commercially available but he doesn't ride it with the sheetable range right up against the harness. It's too close for ergonomic power and comfort.

I get the marketing fatigue, and I'm a huge proponent of less is more, but I just don't think the length of most systems on the market is a major issue. For sure shorter systems suit children and short people, but the sport has done pretty well so far in spite of this perceived issue. A number of brands make shorter chicken loops for those exceptions.

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ORSales
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Re: Ocean Rodeo stick shift bar

Postby ORSales » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:45 pm

alamos_kiter wrote:
ORSales wrote:Alamos, we are not aware of any other brands that hold patents or patent applications for this concept.
:D Yup, I bet you would hate to find out if there were another bar with a trim adjuster knob on the starboard bar end.
Our bar can easily be converted to work on Starboard. I will explain below. But no, not likely to see other brands. Between North and us we have the patents covered so only other brands would be ones one of us license to. . .
alamos_kiter wrote:What hook do you recommend with this bar? I really like the chicken loop. A timeless concept. I also like the ease with which the long throw of this bar can be used. Look at the rider in your promotional video: usable throw starts at the height of his chin :D
Our current design makes use of the same chicken loop / QR head that we have on our Control Bar. This design has worked well for us and other brands and is a known entity. ie, with safety we want to test for a long time to be sure it works. The perspective in those screen grabs is a bit off but you're right, overall the trend it towards small CL heads and loops for those of us who don't unhook and we are aware of this and moving that way....

As for replacing parts and swapping the winder side of the bar

A number of you have mentioned concerns with maintenance. I have just grabbed a bare bar to show you the parts a bit better...

This image shows the bar end winder. Note that the winder line is actually one line that runs from one rear line leader, through the spool and out to the other rear line leader. This part is easily removed with 1x set screw and the new line can then be threaded.
DD927FDB-442B-41D5-A079-F8BDC86C8A18.JPG
This image shows the routing of the trim line. Note the open U shaped bar. Allows for easy flushing of debris and inspection of all moving parts.
8051AED3-B5E8-49BE-A556-57B44F09552B.JPG
Shows port side bar end. This black part can be swapped out for the winder, allowing you to reverse the bar's set up. Again, one set screw.
1624888D-F06E-44CA-AA6D-0DD864D17045.JPG
Close up of the winder and set screw recessed into the EVA foam head
CBA8B4AA-4F95-43A5-A92D-9355D18FC7EC.JPG
View of bottom of bar. The center bushing is removed with 2x set screws and acts as a channel router for the one line that passes through here.
D3D07B24-D6EF-479E-A1D2-2A5B64C56019.JPG
This image is just a close up showing the set screws for the center bushing.
3D292399-7CB8-416A-BA60-51B0153488DB.JPG

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ORSales
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Re: Ocean Rodeo stick shift bar

Postby ORSales » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:50 pm

alford wrote:
ORSales wrote:
windybrit wrote:Looks most interesting... I'd love to be able to say I "drive a stick" again. 2 questions when you have half a mo' please.
1, High or Low Y ?
2. Safety line runs inside the centre PU tube ?
Current design is a relatively high Y to allow maximum options for the sliding stopper ball. However, plans include a later release of a low Y option, this will be popular with schools, etc.

Safety line runs inside the PU tube...
I thought OR kites needed low Y, like the newish Control bar. Why is a low Y good for schools? Thought low was Y becoming the most common throughout the industry as single front line flagging and below the bar swivel have become.??
Low Y lets schools easily pass the bar through the front lines if students tangle or roll their kite. It also gives you easy access to the 1 front line for self landing. Higher Y gives longer overall throw, which is what we are going for giving the rider lots of sheeting range, which is especially useful in the surf.

I don't have the exact spec but I think we are going with 1m of PU tube length from the CL head top.

Yes, the bar is single front line flag out...

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CaptainArgh
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Re: Ocean Rodeo stick shift bar

Postby CaptainArgh » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:08 pm

Thanks for the close-up pictures of the mechanics, direct from the source. I agree that this version looks a little simpler and lighter than North's, but it could just be the same concept with different marketing approaches. However, the corner knob with "bump" depower, seems a little less cumbersome than reaching around the side to turn the North handle.

In any case, looking forward to seeing how the market accepts this when it gets out to users. While I don't like hidden mechanics (cleats seem to work just fine) I do like the very clean look above the bar. That's nice.

Will the center lines unspin automatically after a loop or is this taken care of manually by the below the bar swivel?

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Re: Ocean Rodeo stick shift bar

Postby iriejohn » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:12 pm

Starsky wrote:A) There is nothing really wrong with the chicken loop and hook system. As long as I own a twin tip, I'll have one.
Genuinely lost me there Starsky, I have a twin tip and never "unhook" so why do I therefore need a chicken loop and hook system? Image

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ORSales
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Re: Ocean Rodeo stick shift bar

Postby ORSales » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:34 pm

CaptainArgh wrote:Thanks for the close-up pictures of the mechanics, direct from the source. I agree that this version looks a little simpler and lighter than North's, but it could just be the same concept with different marketing approaches. However, the corner knob with "bump" depower, seems a little less cumbersome than reaching around the side to turn the North handle.

In any case, looking forward to seeing how the market accepts this when it gets out to users. While I don't like hidden mechanics (cleats seem to work just fine) I do like the very clean look above the bar. That's nice.

Will the center lines unspin automatically after a loop or is this taken care of manually by the below the bar swivel?
It's a similar concept but we took totally different design paths.

Our winder progresses in 1/4 rotational increments making it very easy to adjust and the bump to depower allows hands on control when overpowered and looking to dump power.

There is very little "hidden" about our mechanics and all of it is designed with an approx +1mm tolerance to continue working even when full of sand. The U bar does help flush that out tho. Cleats work well but have 3 major drawbacks. 1) if they fail, you go to full power, 2) they chew up your trim line and cause unnecessary wear and tear and 3) they adjust the front lines that are always under tension when flying.

Clean centerlines prevent line tangles when you eject, they give us options for how much throw each rider wants in their bar and they remove the flapping trim line in your face when riding. The design is also obviously a huge plus for anyone who struggled to reach the cleat on their older bars.

Our centerlines unspin with the below the bar swivel. It's not automatic - currently. We are always working to perfect our designs so never say never. However one key consideration with ours, the center PU allows the bar to easily slide mid kite loop or hard turn, meaning you can depower mid loop if you want. I am not sure about the square North design on this but would guess it would bind given the tolerances.

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CaptainArgh
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Re: Ocean Rodeo stick shift bar

Postby CaptainArgh » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:50 pm

Thanks for the prompt feedback, OR. Design looks really nice.
A bump to depower in "oh-shit" conditions is a definite plus.

An auto-center line spinner would be nice, but none of them have proven to be reliable (to me) and when they bind up they're out of reach anyway. So, a manual below the bar is better IMO. Best is to throw both on there (an auto spinner that should work and an in-reach manual when it doesn't).

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Re: Ocean Rodeo stick shift bar

Postby Do-it » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:05 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Starsky wrote:A) There is nothing really wrong with the chicken loop and hook system. As long as I own a twin tip, I'll have one.
Genuinely lost me there Starsky, I have a twin tip and never "unhook" so why do I therefore need a chicken loop and hook system? Image
No......you need a surfboard.

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ORSales
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Re: Ocean Rodeo stick shift bar

Postby ORSales » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:08 pm

CaptainArgh wrote:Thanks for the prompt feedback, OR. Design looks really nice.
A bump to depower in "oh-shit" conditions is a definite plus.

An auto-center line spinner would be nice, but none of them have proven to be reliable (to me) and when they bind up they're out of reach anyway. So, a manual below the bar is better IMO. Best is to throw both on there (an auto spinner that should work and an in-reach manual when it doesn't).
Big thing for us was to keep the bar as simple as possible while also addressing all the benefits of removing the trim from the front lines... so yeah, the auto spin thing didn't make the cut for some of the same reasons but never say never...

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alamos_kiter
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Re: Ocean Rodeo stick shift bar

Postby alamos_kiter » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:23 pm

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Last edited by alamos_kiter on Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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