Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

forum for kitesurfers


Alysum
Medium Poster
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:28 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Gear: a kite
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: France

Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby Alysum » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:17 am

Which soft protective bags for Vaders would you guys recommend? I have researched and there doesn't seem to be much out there which isn't too big.

topmick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:47 pm
Kiting since: 2006
Local Beach: Sunshine Coast
Favorite Beaches: Cotton Tree
Style: surf
Gear: Switch
FireWire
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Australia

Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby topmick » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:30 pm

FCS 3D Fit bags are made for the Tomo shape. Been happy with mine - it can fit up to a 5'6.

User avatar
CaptainArgh
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2813
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:06 pm
Kiting since: 2004
Style: freeride, surf, slicks, dwindr exploring
Gear: SS RPM 6, SST 8/10 and Rally 12
Location: MD
Contact:

Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby CaptainArgh » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:10 pm

topmick wrote:FCS 3D Fit bags are made for the Tomo shape. Been happy with mine - it can fit up to a 5'6.
This is the one I have (also the only one I found). It's a nicely designed bag.
Only thing missing is a fin pocket. Was surprised not to see one incorporated in the design as most of these are 5 fin boards and you will inherently have a couple extra fins floating around, or all 5 for travel.

Alysum
Medium Poster
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:28 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Gear: a kite
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: France

Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby Alysum » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:21 pm

FCS bag it is, thanks !

Da Yoda
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:20 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Style: Strapless Freestyle, Wave, Freeride
Gear: Not what you're using
Brand Affiliation: iKitesurf
Location: Western USA

Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby Da Yoda » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:31 pm

magic%20Ed wrote:Funny, foils tend to give more sideways and upways (depending on the angle of the fin) force, which make surfboard tails stay out of the water more easily and giving you a bit more turning force, but with speed, the foils have a tendency to cause drag. With kitesurfing you already have speed, plenty of speed. So in my opinion, foils are a no go. You want to have a fast (speed) and a easy turning tomo? Get a fin with no inner foil, low rake (straight) and not to much width (or length). Compare it with airplanes: a slow, big plane has wide wings with foils (even increasing the foil when landing), fast, easy turning airplanes have short wings with litle or no foil. But ofcourse, personal preference and probably also technique will make a big difference.

Specifically Tomo: Vanguard & Vader: small thruster setup. Evo: medium quad setup. No foils.
The key word in your statement above is "opinion". Normally I would fully agree with your assertion, but my knowledge is based on experience from testing, not opinion. Here's how I discovered it...
Back in 2012 I got interested in fin shapes and design for kiting. At the time I was on a traditional shaped surfboard and had been using some F4 flat-foil front fins and was really liking the feel (thruster set-up). Out of curiosity one day I tried the F4V2 inside-foiled front fins and noticed immediately the "drag" that you mention above. I went back and forth testing and confirmed that the flat-foil fins were more ideal for eliminating that draggy feel. My experience was reinforced when I got my Loyd surfboard. Gabe had been testing fins and concluded the same thing for his kite specific surfboards... no inside foils!

In 2014 I got a Tomo Vanguard and based off my experience at that point, I mounted it with the F4 flat-foil front fins. Immediately I felt that familiar draggy feel that I'd experienced with the F4V2 inside-foiled fins and was left dumbfounded. I decided to test the F4V2 fins out of curiosity and was shocked at the difference. The inside-foil made the Tomo board come alive. It was so noticeably faster and way more nimble. I also had the exact same experience with the Vader when I demo'ed it... changed out the fins and boom the board was on fire! :thumb:

Da Yoda
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:20 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Style: Strapless Freestyle, Wave, Freeride
Gear: Not what you're using
Brand Affiliation: iKitesurf
Location: Western USA

Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby Da Yoda » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:46 pm

Alysum wrote:Which soft protective bags for Vaders would you guys recommend? I have researched and there doesn't seem to be much out there which isn't too big.
Creatures Retro Fish 5'6
Dakine Daylight Deluxe 5'4
FCS Dayrunner Performance Hull 5'4-5'6
Hyperlite Wakesurf 5'4
Ion Surf Core 5'6
LF Surf Day Tripper 5'4
North Nugget 5'5
Prolite Session 5'6
Ronix Dempsey 4'0-5'0 & 5'1-6'2
Rareform 5'6
Wave Tribe Pioneer Mini Simmons 5'2 & 5'6
Airwave Custom Kite 5'0 & 5'6

BudhaNl
Medium Poster
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:03 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: WaZ Noordpier
IJmuiden
Gear: Naish Pivot 5-7-9
Airush Ultra 12
North Jaime 136
DSD Stallion 5'2
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby BudhaNl » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:15 am

Da Yoda wrote:
magic%20Ed wrote:Funny, foils tend to give more sideways and upways (depending on the angle of the fin) force, which make surfboard tails stay out of the water more easily and giving you a bit more turning force, but with speed, the foils have a tendency to cause drag. With kitesurfing you already have speed, plenty of speed. So in my opinion, foils are a no go. You want to have a fast (speed) and a easy turning tomo? Get a fin with no inner foil, low rake (straight) and not to much width (or length). Compare it with airplanes: a slow, big plane has wide wings with foils (even increasing the foil when landing), fast, easy turning airplanes have short wings with litle or no foil. But ofcourse, personal preference and probably also technique will make a big difference.

Specifically Tomo: Vanguard & Vader: small thruster setup. Evo: medium quad setup. No foils.
The key word in your statement above is "opinion". Normally I would fully agree with your assertion, but my knowledge is based on experience from testing, not opinion. Here's how I discovered it...
Back in 2012 I got interested in fin shapes and design for kiting. At the time I was on a traditional shaped surfboard and had been using some F4 flat-foil front fins and was really liking the feel (thruster set-up). Out of curiosity one day I tried the F4V2 inside-foiled front fins and noticed immediately the "drag" that you mention above. I went back and forth testing and confirmed that the flat-foil fins were more ideal for eliminating that draggy feel. My experience was reinforced when I got my Loyd surfboard. Gabe had been testing fins and concluded the same thing for his kite specific surfboards... no inside foils!

In 2014 I got a Tomo Vanguard and based off my experience at that point, I mounted it with the F4 flat-foil front fins. Immediately I felt that familiar draggy feel that I'd experienced with the F4V2 inside-foiled fins and was left dumbfounded. I decided to test the F4V2 fins out of curiosity and was shocked at the difference. The inside-foil made the Tomo board come alive. It was so noticeably faster and way more nimble. I also had the exact same experience with the Vader when I demo'ed it... changed out the fins and boom the board was on fire! :thumb:
Magic Ed's opinion is based on his experience. As he describes in many posts, among which this one. You can't have missed all of them, can you?

Da Yoda
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:20 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Style: Strapless Freestyle, Wave, Freeride
Gear: Not what you're using
Brand Affiliation: iKitesurf
Location: Western USA

Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby Da Yoda » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:26 am

BudhaNl wrote:
magic%20Ed wrote:So in my opinion, foils are a no go. You want to have a fast (speed) and a easy turning tomo? Get a fin with no inner foil, low rake (straight) and not to much width (or length).
Magic Ed's opinion is based on his experience. As he describes in many posts, among which this one. You can't have missed all of them, can you?
Maybe I've missed something, but when I see a statement like the one above combined with the question of wanting "a fast and a easy tuning Tomo", I can only wonder if he has actually tested the inside-foiled fins compared to the flat-foil on the Tomo boards. When your "opinion" is "no" then it is what it is... an opinion.

I've played around with some other fins that have different profiles, but I still could notice the flat foil vs inside foiled. I really don't know what else to say on this topic other than to enjoy those flat, draggy fins. :bye:

BudhaNl
Medium Poster
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:03 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: WaZ Noordpier
IJmuiden
Gear: Naish Pivot 5-7-9
Airush Ultra 12
North Jaime 136
DSD Stallion 5'2
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby BudhaNl » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:01 am

You seem to focus on the use of the word 'opinion', so much so that you're editing my post (please don't) to make your point.

I'll reiterate myself just once: he's tested them. He describes his experience, even in this thread, and apparently his experience doesn't match yours. Accept that instead of focusing on semantics.

TomW
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2577
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Vejbystrand, Habo Ljung, Lomma
Gear: TW Surfboards 5-0
TW Surfboards hydrofoil board 120 and 135
Moses Fluente 550/590 + 330/325 and 633 set
North Mono 7, 9, 12
Ozone Reo 5
Ozone Hyperlink 9mUL, 7m
Flysurfer Sonic 2 13m
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Sweden

Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby TomW » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:28 pm

I'm riding the F4 V2 in quad configuration, on Tomo Evo like board. But most easily available and affordable are the regular F4 with flat foil, so that's what I put on usually. Just too lazy to swith back N forth. Might have to try.

On a related issue, I think the F4 quad is sometimes too grippy, and wish I could get F3.8 size quads. I tried 2 different Twin keel set upsand it was fun but either too skatey or too locked in.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Peter_Frank, Sgallian, tomtom and 11 guests

cron