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Naish Torch 2017 Problems (No Power)

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Octo
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Re: Naish Torch 2017 Problems (No Power)

Postby Octo » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:06 pm

Firstly thanks guys for the constructive comments,

So fresh out of the bag and using the new torque bar these issues were apparent so the lines hadn't even had the chance to stretch yet, as i said in my first post i removed the ESP bridle thing and put it on the K.O.A setting as it says and i had to shorten the back lines for it to perform at all.

I have been on Torches for years and the low V on this kite has pretty much ruined a powerful sharp kite in my opinion as it has dulled it down and made it fly slower & has us messing with our line lengths and leaves us actually not knowing what the optimum setting is for this kite actually is. (The old Torch was out of the bag plug & play)

I went out on a 2016 Torch yesterday and eureka thats how they are meant to fly in 20 knots & it was a different machine altogether, so for this year we have a kite with no low end so the lads will be on 14 mtr in 35 Knots Torches at king of the air stay tuned! This really can not be the case can it?? there has to be something missing from the kite!

longwhitecloud
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Re: Naish Torch 2017 Problems (No Power)

Postby longwhitecloud » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:24 am

omfg = its true! :-0
Screen shot 2016-11-22 at 12.23.08 PM.png
Screen shot 2016-11-22 at 12.23.08 PM.png (13.06 KiB) Viewed 1504 times

LorenzoS
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Re: Naish Torch 2017 Problems (No Power)

Postby LorenzoS » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:46 am

I personally "fixed the issue" by shortening the back lines by just a knot but making sure the front and 5th lines remain at equal length. I tried back to back the 2016 and 2017 Torches and did notice the 2017 to be slightly less powerful but not to the point that Octo describes it.

We can't be comparing C kites w/ bow or delta kites especially in larger sizes. Larger C shape kites are inherently inefficient and don't really perform that well under 15/18 knots.

A good rule of thumb when deciding for a Torch quiver is to go at least 1 size bigger than you'd normally get. For instance a very popular quiver among the Torch lovers is 14-11-9 which gets you nicely covered or 12-10-8 if you ride a particularly windy spot.

SKYWALKER3D
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Re: Naish Torch 2017 Problems (No Power)

Postby SKYWALKER3D » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:34 am

LorenzoS wrote:I personally "fixed the issue" by shortening the back lines by just a knot but making sure the front and 5th lines remain at equal length. I tried back to back the 2016 and 2017 Torches and did notice the 2017 to be slightly less powerful but not to the point that Octo describes it.

We can't be comparing C kites w/ bow or delta kites especially in larger sizes. Larger C shape kites are inherently inefficient and don't really perform that well under 15/18 knots.

A good rule of thumb when deciding for a Torch quiver is to go at least 1 size bigger than you'd normally get. For instance a very popular quiver among the Torch lovers is 14-11-9 which gets you nicely covered or 12-10-8 if you ride a particularly windy spot.
Thanks for the feed back. Im going to try the 1 knot shorter on the bar ends and i think this will help a little with out back stalling it. Same problem i found on the ParkHD's.
Im not sure why this is just not correct out of the factory.

Octo
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Re: Naish Torch 2017 Problems (No Power)

Postby Octo » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:07 am

Thanks Lorenzo,

As I said I found that I had to shorten the back lines, I tried multiple adjustments and found the setting it worked best but this was still not great in my eyes then I also tried variable 5thline lengths.

But after flying back to back the same conditions on a 2016 Torch the same size there is no comparison between the two kites just a different machine altogether.

I wish the kite would just plug and play and I would rather just fly a kite that works the way it did since 2014.

Quiver of Torches..... 8,10,12,14 I am actually very familiar with what conditions these work there best in :)

Cheers

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dracop
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Re: Naish Torch 2017 Problems (No Power)

Postby dracop » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:19 am

Are all of the lines equal? Are you using attachments on the LE and wingtip similar to prior years? The wingtip attachment was always abit shorter than the corner attachment on the LE.
Don't forget you can use the sliding sleeve above the 5th line knot to tighten the fifth line. if the kite hangs by the corners it creates a super deep C that is very precise but kills the power and some of the speed. The main change form 2016 was the addition of the ESP attachment point/mini bridle piece, the newer quadtex, and a reduction in some of the reinofrcements on the canopy.
The Torch lacks a modern manual, Ive had to go back as far as the 2007 manual to get answers to questions like what knot to use for the fifth slider sleeve (overhand figure eight aka Flemish knot). The sizes of the attachment pigtails on the LE and wingtips are not listed anywhere.

I watched the dealer meeting on Maui. All of the dealers accepted the as is settings which shaped the canopy into a deep C, killing power (especially low end) while adding precision for wakestyle. Only one of the dealers tweaked the fifth line and back line settings to match the canopy I prefer for boosting/looping. Interestingly, he went straight to the same settings I use, which were shown to me in Cape Town,.

Octo
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Re: Naish Torch 2017 Problems (No Power)

Postby Octo » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:08 am

Thanks Dracop,

Yup so as you describe I attached the front lines to setting 2 which is the apparent King of the air setting, and the back lines to the corner of the wing tip as I used to with kites of old.

On the 5th line I tried a few different knots making use of the webbing above the stitched larks lead on the 5th line attachment point, so I found the kite flew best with a knot just above the stitched part in the end.

So having covered all bases with the tuning for this kite I am no better off really so I think I will send it back and fingers crossed for 2018.

Thanks for everyone's input BTW

kiter4fun123
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Re: Naish Torch 2017 Problems (No Power)

Postby kiter4fun123 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:17 pm

Something happened to the torch kite lineup around 2012-2013 in my opinion. I used these kites year 2009, 2011. Lovely kites, great hangtime and boost. Then I get the 2013 12m kite and I never liked it. Bad jumping, no hangtime, mediocre low-end.
I don't know what design error they made but something it was :(
And why discontinue the raven lineup? This was also a great C-style kite, big jumper!

(still got my 9m torch from 2009, it's an excellent high wind machine in 20-35kn, :D )

Ludmil
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Re: Naish Torch 2017 Problems (No Power)

Postby Ludmil » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:13 am

kiter4fun123 wrote:Something happened to the torch kite lineup around 2012-2013 in my opinion. I used these kites year 2009, 2011. Lovely kites, great hangtime and boost. Then I get the 2013 12m kite and I never liked it. Bad jumping, no hangtime, mediocre low-end.
I don't know what design error they made but something it was :(
And why discontinue the raven lineup? This was also a great C-style kite, big jumper!

(still got my 9m torch from 2009, it's an excellent high wind machine in 20-35kn, :D )
Strange, in 2009 I had 14 as my biggest kite, and for 2013 I had 12.
I think that this 12 was their best low end performer from all torches I had, but with less slack on the other hand . The 2014 version felt much lighter with different profile, and thinner struts. Less low end but better slack and hang time when powered enough.
Never the less at 20 knots with any of the previous years I 12s used to be pretty lit.
Recently spoke with Naish team rider about new low V setup, and he said that for 2017 bigger sizes have bigger range, better handling overall and more slack.
Go figure...

swimmer
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Re: Naish Torch 2017 Problems (No Power)

Postby swimmer » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:43 am

Interesting...
I'm curious has anyone tried the new 2017 torch with the older High Y bars?


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