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Safety System. F-One Bandit X 2017 ?

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jeromeL
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Re: Safety System. F-One Bandit X 2017 ?

Postby jeromeL » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:59 pm

justkite100 wrote: One thing I noticed compared to the single line flag out kites I learnt on was how do I properly pack down the kite?
On a single line flag out it is the wrap the harness leash around the bar procedure, however this doesn't seem to work on the bandit-x / monolith bar. When I tried practicing this the kite actually started flying with the leash line wrapped around the bar.
Did that too on first few tries ;) I feel really stupid watching my wife take lessons and doing it on switch blade on first try, you can't make a mistake on cabrinha system it seems. I learned on bandit and flew only bandit for a while....

Short answer is to first wind up 1 center line until kite is in true flagging position.

For Bandit or any other kite you need to make sure the kite is flagged before winding the line. If it s waist deep water I just pull the leash line all the way to high Y then grab one of the center line until kite flag.. then I secure that 1 center line first then grab all and start winding it up. If it's not waist deep you don't want to float around with excess lines so procedure is a bit different.

If it's not waist deep i pull the leash line and push the bar all the way to stopper ball.
1) wind leash line
Then I hold bar with one hand and with other hand I wind the leash line first, I start with going around one tip of the bar with a slip knot then all remaining power is on the bar so with free hand you can wind up all the leash line remaining.
2) I flag the kite by grabbing only 1 center line and winding it up the bar same as leash line. go a few more feet after kite is flagged.
3) now kite is flagged so grab all lines a do a few figure 8, then you can start winding all of them around bar using whatever method you like, some people use the bar as a leverage other just wind it up just like on the beach.
4) As you get to kite you can wind up some excess lines while holding kite, make a slip knot around the bar. then you can let go of bar or not while you self recue back to beach.

General advise while winding up the line is to make assumption kite can power up anytime so make sure no body part of finger is in the way of lines, do a figure 8 around chicken loop once in a while or a slip knot on one hand of the bar in case kite catch some wind and you have to let go of line.


Remind me of my first session, I went for one last tack because wind was getting light and it died totally and was side shore. I was really close to shore but still took me 30 min to pack down and self rescue because I didn't properly flag kite prior to winding the line....

Last year I had to do it on top of reef with waves breaking, no booties, sea urchin, half a mile from shore, it wasn't fun...

Gobigorfoil
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Re: Safety System. F-One Bandit X 2017 ?

Postby Gobigorfoil » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:05 pm

Watch out for using other bars - iirc Fone has some weird line lengths (not so sure if they are even, but back lines are something like 21.8m because they use a long bridle) - make sure before using that they have the same ratio of front/back lines.

I switched to core xr4 & gts 4, great kites, simple and flawless bar in my opinion.
but as everyone said - almost any big brand has great kites these days.

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Re: Safety System. F-One Bandit X 2017 ?

Postby justkite100 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:47 pm

jeromeL wrote:
justkite100 wrote: One thing I noticed compared to the single line flag out kites I learnt on was how do I properly pack down the kite?
On a single line flag out it is the wrap the harness leash around the bar procedure, however this doesn't seem to work on the bandit-x / monolith bar. When I tried practicing this the kite actually started flying with the leash line wrapped around the bar.
Did that too on first few tries ;) I feel really stupid watching my wife take lessons and doing it on switch blade on first try, you can't make a mistake on cabrinha system it seems. I learned on bandit and flew only bandit for a while....

Short answer is to first wind up 1 center line until kite is in true flagging position.

For Bandit or any other kite you need to make sure the kite is flagged before winding the line. If it s waist deep water I just pull the leash line all the way to high Y then grab one of the center line until kite flag.. then I secure that 1 center line first then grab all and start winding it up. If it's not waist deep you don't want to float around with excess lines so procedure is a bit different.

If it's not waist deep i pull the leash line and push the bar all the way to stopper ball.
1) wind leash line
Then I hold bar with one hand and with other hand I wind the leash line first, I start with going around one tip of the bar with a slip knot then all remaining power is on the bar so with free hand you can wind up all the leash line remaining.
2) I flag the kite by grabbing only 1 center line and winding it up the bar same as leash line. go a few more feet after kite is flagged.
3) now kite is flagged so grab all lines a do a few figure 8, then you can start winding all of them around bar using whatever method you like, some people use the bar as a leverage other just wind it up just like on the beach.
4) As you get to kite you can wind up some excess lines while holding kite, make a slip knot around the bar. then you can let go of bar or not while you self recue back to beach.

General advise while winding up the line is to make assumption kite can power up anytime so make sure no body part of finger is in the way of lines, do a figure 8 around chicken loop once in a while or a slip knot on one hand of the bar in case kite catch some wind and you have to let go of line.


Remind me of my first session, I went for one last tack because wind was getting light and it died totally and was side shore. I was really close to shore but still took me 30 min to pack down and self rescue because I didn't properly flag kite prior to winding the line....

Last year I had to do it on top of reef with waves breaking, no booties, sea urchin, half a mile from shore, it wasn't fun...
Thanks Jerome... appreciate this advice.
I think I need to have a think about what my options are. Do I continue on with the Bandit's and persevere with the 2 line system, or do I cut my loses and change over to a single line system.

justkite100
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Re: Safety System. F-One Bandit X 2017 ?

Postby justkite100 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:51 pm

Gobigorfoil wrote:Watch out for using other bars - iirc Fone has some weird line lengths (not so sure if they are even, but back lines are something like 21.8m because they use a long bridle) - make sure before using that they have the same ratio of front/back lines.

I switched to core xr4 & gts 4, great kites, simple and flawless bar in my opinion.
but as everyone said - almost any big brand has great kites these days.
Hi Gobigorfoil... yes I have heard that which makes me a bit dubious about using a different brand of bar with the kites...
The line lengths are : Steering lines 21.8m / Centre lines 18.6m

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Re: Safety System. F-One Bandit X 2017 ?

Postby alexeyga » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:11 am

Gobigorfoil wrote:Watch out for using other bars - iirc Fone has some weird line lengths (not so sure if they are even, but back lines are something like 21.8m because they use a long bridle) - make sure before using that they have the same ratio of front/back lines.
F-one's bars (younger than Bandit 4) are all 22m equal length, the only thing to watch for are the actual pig-tales which shouldn't be a problem with any modern bar which ends in 4 loops with replaceable ends. Core's and North's bars being the best match because of the high Y-split.

The fun thing about F-One's budget mostly spent on cool vids of team riders in epic locations (instead of spending it on the actual development and advancement) - are the little details... for instance - watch closely the bars that team riders are using - for some reason a lot of them are on custom bars with a low V-split and a single-line safety... one has to wonder "why or why?"...

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jeromeL
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Re: Safety System. F-One Bandit X 2017 ?

Postby jeromeL » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:38 am

Another drawback of that bar is when kite invert inside out (different from inverted line), in some situations the kite can do 180 rotation and power up with strut facing away, bending leading edge the other way. In that situation hitting quick release won't help... I heard that some other kite have better outcome hitting quick release.

I don't want to recommend you to keep the bar but that's what I did knowing the risk... but you have to make your own decisions.

By the way even on a fifth line system the power is not always 100% killed. For example a 9m kite in 35 to 40 knots when you hit QR the kite will somewhat flag but it will keep flying in upside down position because wind is so strong. It won't have much b power but enough that it will be too hard to pull fifth line to do a self rescue. Obviously those are extreme conditions. Just saying that if you fly fone 12m up to 18 knots you most likely can handle it. In 22 to 25 it might be hard to self rescue but it will be almost as hard on any other kite. I have yet to see a clean self rescue video in upper range of a kite. Most video are in 12 knots of wind...


I don't think you necessarily have to change bar unless you need a 100% flag on QR. You can still release leash if the 70% depower from hitting QR is not enough thigh that's a 2 steps release and in case of emergency ideally 1 step would be better.
If you know your gear and don't mind the risk it's an ok system...

FYI I learned on fone bandit and rode them for 2 years, I know many people who ride those and swear by them, saying shit like it's the Ferrari of kite and such... some people even argued that QR works fine...
Basically when you hit QR it doesn't flag the kite but kind of depower it all the way, there is still some remaining power but usually its low enough that you can pull one line to flag it.
In Caribbean once some small storm showed up while I was on 12m I think it was over 35 knots because I was starting to get lofted. I was able to quick release it and flag it by pulling the center line.

Most people are just mowing the lawn riding back and forth and rarely need to hit quick release so probably haven't even noticed any issues with safety.
Now if you plan to really push your limits and use it on the upper of its range I understand considering a safer option which garantee a 100% depower in case shit happen.

I wouldn't use fone if you have to drift launch often and self rescue in order to come back to shore. For example a lot of Caribbean location, lake or river setup require you to walk in and out in open water holding kite... fone system would be annoying.

But if you launch from land you won't be bothered too much.

I have had many issues with quick release but often on low or medium range of kite I could sort everything out. On high range I have had only one issue where I eventually had to release the leash.

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Re: Safety System. F-One Bandit X 2017 ?

Postby knotwindy » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:57 am

that is a long post to say the QR does not work well. Get a different one that works better, like all the time. Only If your life is worth it, of course. Maybe you like the extra risk for no gain...

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Re: Safety System. F-One Bandit X 2017 ?

Postby windmaker » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:38 am

alexeyga wrote:That dysfunctional safety is one of the reasons why I've turned my back on Bandits. Well that and the simple fact that F-One has been selling us same gear in different colors since 2013. No innovation or improvements what so ever.

.
This comment seriously questions your knowledge of this kite...

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Re: Safety System. F-One Bandit X 2017 ?

Postby justkite100 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:02 pm

I like the idea of changing out the bar for something with a single line safety mainly because its cheap compared to selling my kites where I am going to lose money.
I keep hearing that it isnt a good idea to use a single line safety bar system with the Bandit due to the length of the bridles and risk of them getting tangled and then kite looping.... ??
Does anyone have experience running a different bar on the bandit?
... I am new to all this so apologise if Im asking stupid questions..

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Re: Safety System. F-One Bandit X 2017 ?

Postby sabraxas » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:44 pm

jeromeL wrote: I have a feeling they do that because their bridle is really long so if kite is in true flag position, as you reset the bar and kite rotate the wingtip can catch the bridle which will start uncontrolled loop (deathloop), happened to me 3 times...
Suicide System (kite hanging from two front lines when ejected) was designed not only to relaunch the kite after a failed jump or a wrong maneuver if you are unhooked.
In kites with certain bridle system was the only possible solution to avoid deathloops if kite ejected in a single front line.

This might be the case of Bandit.
Suicide system when ejection is activated is obsolete nowadays.


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