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First Foil

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alexrider
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Re: First Foil

Postby alexrider » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:18 pm

f2020 wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:38 pm
The Double Agent is the worst foil I've ever tried. Slow, Whistling and not stable.
Hello my friend!
True the Double Agent is slow, very slow and some of them do whistle; not mine, btw.
That's how far we agree.
Not stable? You mean in pitch? True the first model is a bit pitch twitchy and not easy (the first sessions) to get the height right. I solved that by changing the stabilisers' angle of attack (returned to original after having dialled in). The 2017 model, due to its longer fuselage is very stable and noticeably faster (due to the thinner mast I guess) and nearly as manoeuvrable. I suggest you try it; you might reconsider your opinion. :wink:
After having tried several other boards, the low volume of the DA board makes it the easiest to waterstart of all the ones I've tried.
BTW, I know a couple of riders who bought freeride hydrofoils which from reviews were considered easy (of the Fone freeride kind). They nearly gave up hydrofoiling till they were suggested to have a go at the Double Agent before giving up. A few sessions were enough to get them going.
I personally managed rides of 500 meters between falls after 6-7 short sessions totalling 2 hours, and I'm an old dog who's not supposed to be able to learn new tricks. Two weeks ago, a Belgian rider bought a 2017 DA over here and in less than a week (after about 8 sessions totalling 8 hours) could gibe, ride toe-side and even tack (surface). More remarkable: he came straight from twintip without having ever ridden a directional.
I haven't tried the other beginner's hydrofoil with similar features (large wing, alu mast...) there is no reason they should behave much differently than the Cab DA.
The DA is turns and carves like no other. I enjoy riding it a lot more than my faster and quieter Zeeko Green & White, which is considered as one of the best for beginners and more advanced freeride hydrofoil. I know several experienced riders in Bali and Hua Hin who wouldn't consider upgrading because they love playing and carving in the waves, something you cannot do with fast foils (ask BRM Greg).
In the end it's the sort of riding style that determines your preference for such and such a foil. If you like zipping along at high speeds, the DA isn't for you. If you enjoy foiling like do when flying a Piper Cub or a floater hang-glider, then it's definitely for you, even when past the beginner's stage.

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alexrider
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Re: First Foil

Postby alexrider » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:30 pm

2017 is indeed more stable, and as a result, easier. And faster.
But if you have experience with the 2016, you won't ask for more stability. Vivacity (or twitchiness) can be regarded as a quality.

BTW I would definitely recommend the 155 cm board instead of the 145 for a beginner.
matth wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:09 pm
...
I have heard it whistles, sounds like it could be annoying. I do believe the 2017 has an increased fuselage, which helps stability.

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alexrider
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Re: First Foil

Postby alexrider » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:34 pm

matth wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:08 am
....

Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks
My opinion is that topic ought to be in the hydrofoil section. :D
Ask Toby to move it if you think so too.

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ElbowRoom
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Re: First Foil

Postby ElbowRoom » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:43 pm

i highly recommend the alpinefoil access 5.0 incredibly stable and good performance. with xlp wing it can go to about 28kts

took me about 1.5 hrs total to learn to foil. very user friendly.

MKM
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Re: First Foil

Postby MKM » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:47 pm

Most foils will whistle from time to time, and it's very easy to resolve most of the time. Simply hit the trailing edge with a some 400 grit wet sandpaper to detune it a bit. Remove small nicks and scratches, to eliminate harmonic vibration that is usually caused by them. Even the best stuff will hum after time, just tune them up!

revhed
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Re: First Foil

Postby revhed » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:00 pm

alexrider wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:18 pm
f2020 wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:38 pm
The Double Agent is the worst foil I've ever tried. Slow, Whistling and not stable.
True the Double Agent is slow, very slow!
As is the Funny foil from L F, super draggy, no wonder it is discontinued, such ashame for all the guys who are stuck with one!
Naish being almost the same, avoid all three if at all possible!
You will want a KBHF that is at least somewhat hydrodynamic for both speed, low wind and the feeling of slicing thru the H20, not dragging!
R H

danidr
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Re: First Foil

Postby danidr » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:01 pm

This will be a very subjective topic. Some people want to just foil, some will want to go as fast as possible. Some find it easy, some find it hard. Some learnt the hard way with full masts, others are happy on the medium mast. I took 2 lessons (with foil included in the price) to learn the basics and to make sure it's something I wanted to pursue.

I liked the feeling of it and bought a used LF foil fish (2015) that someone happened to be selling for a good price. I replaced the fuselage with the longer version which is quite more stable and I've been happy with it for now, and invested less than US$ 900 total, and I guess that I could sell the setup for a decent price as there's always someone wanting to go into foiling. With this setup I go in winds of 9-10 kts with my 9m without too much problem now that I can stay on the foil. It's also possible to change the wings of this setup to the more performance oriented ones. Also have in mind that a more performance oriented foil will only get you running in very light winds if you have a kite that's good at those winds, if not you will swim a lot!

I didn't try the shorter masts, I do have a few friends that did and I believe the medium mast could be of some use. The really short mast... not so sure as even in flat water you will overfoil it quite easily. The medium foil I guess would make it safer at first as there's less chance of hitting the thing if you foil. It can also help in the sense that if you overfoil with the long mast, it's more probable that you will crash when the board goes down, which with the medium mast will not be such a long distance.

I'd say don't spend big bucks right away until you try it. I would definitely not have liked having a fast foil from day 1.

matth
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Re: First Foil

Postby matth » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:46 pm

Thanks for all your responses, Lots to think about. I'm still thinking LF rocket fish , I can pick one complete including extra 25" mast for learning for under 1500$
Two locals have the original foil fish and love them. When I out grow it I'm sure I will have no problem selling, so would rather start with a beginner friendly and durable set up.

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palmbeacher
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Re: First Foil

Postby palmbeacher » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:53 pm

Another issue with the LF is that the wing splits apart after frequent use. Go with a carbon foil like 2016 MHL, you won't regret it. Selling new at Mac and Greenhat for 1049 USD.

blu
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Re: First Foil

Postby blu » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:50 am

I'm looking at Nobile Zen foil. Can anyone comment on that setup for learning?


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