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Testing Hard shell harnesses. Any Questions?

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stefarius
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Re: Testing Hard shell harnesses. Any Questions?

Postby stefarius » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:03 am

plummet wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:53 pm
]
stefarius wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:39 am
plummet wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:03 pm
Do you have a jay xtc in your test?

PS I alreadt have one. but am interested to know how it compares to others.

PS. spreader hook up to harness and ease of putting on is high on the list. Adjustability is another. Do any come with low friction rings as standard or option?
Hi Plummet, what do you mean with a low friction ring?
11995163.jpg
Check thanks.

We uploaded the First Part of the Hardshell Harness Test. Sportphysiotherapie Leon Meijer talks about the Fit & Function.

phpBB [video]

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Starsky
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Re: Testing Hard shell harnesses. Any Questions?

Postby Starsky » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:38 pm

Wow,

First, I generally love your stuff, but that was painful.

Pull vs Push? what???? Its all pull budday. No one is getting pushed around in kiteboarding! Should have just talked about pressure and torque distribution differences between hard and soft shell. Man, how to unessecarily talk around ergonomics and not really impart anything helpful.

You want simple points.

1. Pick a harness type that suits your body shape....

If your an endomorph, maybe a seat is going to stay put a little better than a waist. This is as basic as not putting skinny jeans on an overweight middle aged man. If your skinny, go waist, if your round through the middle don't.

2. Pick a harness type that suits your riding style.

If your boosting big all the time with a standard hook, a hardshell might not be the best choice. high torque through a rigid shell can actually hurt more than something softer that will bend and rotate a bit more easily on your body. Crashing hard and hang time are less suited to rigid edges, the worse the fit, the worse the effect of a hard shell ramming into your ribs or hips. Racers, and danglers.... do you really want to be yanked from the waist, or would you rather take a seat? Already have a hernia??? yeah, get a seat. If your foiling or wave riding with a pivot or slider, a hard shell that stays put will likely suit you best.

3. A harness is just a harness. No matter which one you choose, it's no substitute for good ergonomics and core fitness.

A bent waist posture with arms at full extension is just bad core ergonomics and every waist harness in the world is going to make for sheer forces through your lower lumbars. Like riding your 12 in 25 knots?... Ride a hook and chicken loop and are mostly looking to boost big?,,,only really happy when you have half the trim pulled in?.... get a seat. If you know what drift is?.... Ride toe side a lot?... Ride strapless?,,, on a surfboard? rig smaller than most?, or rig down before pulling in a foot of trim? Get a waist.... and a hard shell is simply a nice step in the evolution of a properly fitting waist harness.

Lastly, a rigid shell really suits a pivot or slider best. Because they hold their lumbar curvature, if you have a lumbar curve for them to fit into, they tend to have a lot of grip on your core. If your primarily using a hook and chicken loop, torque put through the harness will be more effectively transmitted to your core. You take that strain at the top and bottom edge of the harness..... two places where the facet joints guiding vertebral movement are not oriented to cope well with rotation. The rigid nature of the hard shell suits a connection system that will minimize torque through the axial plane. Can you ride a rigid harness with a hook... of course you can, but as an every day set up, its a miss match.

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Re: Testing Hard shell harnesses. Any Questions?

Postby pmania » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:07 am

TonyC wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:26 am
I have a brand new Mystic Majestic X, size medium for sale. I bought the wrong size and can't return it. $365 shipped in the USA. I may be able to ship international.
Hello is yours to small or too big, looks like those Mystic fit a little bigger in the same sizes or not ?

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Re: Testing Hard shell harnesses. Any Questions?

Postby TonyC » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:43 pm

POACHER wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:43 pm
TonyC wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:26 am
I have a brand new Mystic Majestic X, size medium for sale. I bought the wrong size and can't return it. $365 shipped in the USA. I may be able to ship international.
Tony are you Navajopilot on Ebay? I see a Medium for sale on there.

I just bought a Majestic X too. What size are you? I bought the medium and I'm a 32-34" depending on beer/miscellaneous gluttony. I was sent a Large originally and could've used it without issue too. There isn't a huge difference between them just so you know. I've used the Medium a few times and it fits great. Really nice and compact too.

I'm curious to see how the Pro Limit Vapor turns out. I've been a fan of their harnesses, but apparently they don't care to bring it to the U.S........

No matter, I'm good on my harness now.

Yes that's me. I have a 34" waist and the harness is to small. Should have went with the large.

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Re: Testing Hard shell harnesses. Any Questions?

Postby Da Yoda » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:35 pm

I can't wait to see the harness comparison part!
I agree that testing a harness on water, not in the shop, is the most ideal way to find out what will work best. However testing out harnesses on water has proven almost impossible where I'm at (and other places for some). The local shops for the most part have zero or a very limited offering (models and sizes) for demo. The local reps, ambassadors, and athletes have zero harnesses for demo as well... unless you happen to fit the size of their personal harness. If one buys a harness and then tests it out on water for themselves, they can't return it if it doesn't work or is the wrong size. So in summary, testing on water for the most part is not an option. Hanging off a CL/rope in a store or at home is generally the only option.
So with that said, it would be nice to see some fitting (and comparison) info for those that are "testing on water" challenged. :thumb:
This is one of the better fitting videos I've seen lately. I like his method of both hanging/weighting the harness, but also dropping to his knees to change the angle of the pull.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWAACtAv32I
Another thing that would be nice to see is 3-4 different body types showing the variances of the fit. Someone with an V shaped body, an A shaped body, and an O shaped body for example. Ladies too!

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Re: Testing Hard shell harnesses. Any Questions?

Postby fitschi07 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:18 pm

Hi there,
first of all : I´m loving your stuff. Please make more form this.

I´m looking forward to see these test - want to change my harness into hardshell the next few weeks - so GO ON ! Buddy!
Your Fanbase is waiting :) :lol: (Sorry just kidding, I know that it is hard work)

Question:
Is the new 2017 Dakine Pyro also with a hardshell ?

best regards

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Re: Testing Hard shell harnesses. Any Questions?

Postby dwarf » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:37 pm

Can you include the Marena Union?

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Re: Testing Hard shell harnesses. Any Questions?

Postby juergen90 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:46 am

First of all, I also have to say, that I really enjoy your reviews, keep up the good work :thumb:
I would also be interested on how the ION Composite Series Flex Hardshell Harnesses compares to the other candidates in the field.

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Re: Testing Hard shell harnesses. Any Questions?

Postby stefarius » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:46 pm

Part 2 Experience is the best teacher.
Now it's time for a english one :D

phpBB [video]

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Re: Testing Hard shell harnesses. Any Questions?

Postby alfredo68 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:41 am

Starsky wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:38 pm
Wow,

First, I generally love your stuff, but that was painful.

Pull vs Push? what???? Its all pull budday. No one is getting pushed around in kiteboarding! Should have just talked about pressure and torque distribution differences between hard and soft shell. Man, how to unessecarily talk around ergonomics and not really impart anything helpful.

You want simple points.

1. Pick a harness type that suits your body shape....

If your an endomorph, maybe a seat is going to stay put a little better than a waist. This is as basic as not putting skinny jeans on an overweight middle aged man. If your skinny, go waist, if your round through the middle don't.

2. Pick a harness type that suits your riding style.

If your boosting big all the time with a standard hook, a hardshell might not be the best choice. high torque through a rigid shell can actually hurt more than something softer that will bend and rotate a bit more easily on your body. Crashing hard and hang time are less suited to rigid edges, the worse the fit, the worse the effect of a hard shell ramming into your ribs or hips. Racers, and danglers.... do you really want to be yanked from the waist, or would you rather take a seat? Already have a hernia??? yeah, get a seat. If your foiling or wave riding with a pivot or slider, a hard shell that stays put will likely suit you best.

3. A harness is just a harness. No matter which one you choose, it's no substitute for good ergonomics and core fitness.

A bent waist posture with arms at full extension is just bad core ergonomics and every waist harness in the world is going to make for sheer forces through your lower lumbars. Like riding your 12 in 25 knots?... Ride a hook and chicken loop and are mostly looking to boost big?,,,only really happy when you have half the trim pulled in?.... get a seat. If you know what drift is?.... Ride toe side a lot?... Ride strapless?,,, on a surfboard? rig smaller than most?, or rig down before pulling in a foot of trim? Get a waist.... and a hard shell is simply a nice step in the evolution of a properly fitting waist harness.

Lastly, a rigid shell really suits a pivot or slider best. Because they hold their lumbar curvature, if you have a lumbar curve for them to fit into, they tend to have a lot of grip on your core. If your primarily using a hook and chicken loop, torque put through the harness will be more effectively transmitted to your core. You take that strain at the top and bottom edge of the harness..... two places where the facet joints guiding vertebral movement are not oriented to cope well with rotation. The rigid nature of the hard shell suits a connection system that will minimize torque through the axial plane. Can you ride a rigid harness with a hook... of course you can, but as an every day set up, its a miss match.
:thumb: good points.
What about if you have lumbar lordosis or hyper lordosis. Would hard shell help?


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