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LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

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Jelle_vw
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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Jelle_vw » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:34 am

To bad I cannot reach Ozone for some feedback, there view on this question.

Checked my 10m yesterday and the bladder was still in place and the LE nicely pumped and in shape.
I'm still in doubt what to do but for now I go for installment without the retainer.
I don't think it can harm the bladder only maybe that it slips back a bit.

@Downunder,
Did you flap it back or turned the bladder tip inward.
I turned it inward.
The idea behind this is that when you pump it up it can expend toward the LE tip.

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downunder
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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby downunder » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:43 am

Gigi is the kite designer :)

Anyways, yeah tried to flap it, but did not work since went all back to first strut. No good really. But I do have a sealing machine handy :) :)

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Gigi;)
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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Gigi;) » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:51 am

I wouldn't like to point out what is the cause, material, manufacturer, customer (ab)use, sand, salt,.... etc... just pointed out what customer can do to minimize the potential problems.

I know what you are referring to. If you would do like you said you will move point of failure before that bungee "retainer" which is IMO even worse thing. Bladders are not made in 3d circular shapes like sealed wingtip ends, they are flat, so they needs be longer to fill the very ends safely (w/o any unnecessary stretching).

Even on kites with fold styled ends (check your kite struts) and even with sealed bladder ends there will be always the "other" half of the bladder inflated in the folded (1/2) end.

:bye:
downunder wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:16 am
Hi Gigi,

the problem is not a 'bungee webbing' or retainer. We know that this is there for a reason.

The problem is a bladder. You know well that the bladder end on almost all brands is sealed well before it ends and that sealed excess is used in securing the bladder in place. Sealed excess can't be pumped, so it can't be put on pressure resulting in tear or thinning (stretching), the bladder like this retainer does!!!

I can take a micrometer and show that bladder is thinner where the retainer is, due to tear. Or do this, put a watch on your hand and tighten it, how does it feel after a few hours? ;) Than repeat the next day...Over some time your skin would be thinner, damaged by a watch strap.

If Ozone seals the bladder at the ends for about 10-20cm (as you say) and that excess is used around the 'bungee webbing', than it would be heaps better. There is absolutely no point in having a bladder put on pressure after the retainer. The retainer keeps the bladder in place when NOT pumped. Not the opposite.

And because of that, sand and salt inside the bladder can make a pin hole on exactly that place on a pic's, as OP reported.

Not a brainer, really.

Respect
PS

Yeah, my 1000 post :)

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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Gigi;) » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:57 am

I would go against not fitting it thru retainer. But if you will do it make sure that bladder will fill the wingtip ends nicely every time you will pump the kite. What you could try to do is to protect the affected area with some bladder tape or maybe even mark cloth and make sure that it is positioned right in the centre of retainer. If you will be able to push it thru...

Inward - you will blow the bladder eventually.

M2C
Jelle_vw wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:34 am
To bad I cannot reach Ozone for some feedback, there view on this question.

Checked my 10m yesterday and the bladder was still in place and the LE nicely pumped and in shape.
I'm still in doubt what to do but for now I go for installment without the retainer.
I don't think it can harm the bladder only maybe that it slips back a bit.

@Downunder,
Did you flap it back or turned the bladder tip inward.
I turned it inward.
The idea behind this is that when you pump it up it can expend toward the LE tip.

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Gigi;)
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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Gigi;) » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:03 am

Thank you! :thumb:

One alternative - buy a foil kite, you won't have a problem with bladders :D

:bye:

downunder wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:43 am
Gigi is the kite designer :)

Anyways, yeah tried to flap it, but did not work since went all back to first strut. No good really. But I do have a sealing machine handy :) :)

downunder wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:43 am
Gigi is the kite designer :)

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Jelle_vw
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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Jelle_vw » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:23 am

Why you think the bladder will blow if put inward?
I think once you blow it up it will unfold (roll down) towards the LE tip.
What is left will be pushed to the LE tip.
I will check it but expect that it is not inward anymore.

Have to say that I have been asking around and so far my problem is not really recognized by others.
Could be it's just me :roll:

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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Gigi;) » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:02 am

Hi,

I am afraid yes, sooner or later. The problem is lack of locking/securing mechanism on too long distance from the last valve to the tip end and the "cone" shape of wingtips. Bladder will get loose eventually and making free space in the tube, and once it will catch somewhere and make a nice bubble or blow.

Only if you will be extra careful each time and make sure the bladder lays nicely in the kite all the way to the wingtip ends before pumping it to final pressure.

:bye:
Jelle_vw wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:23 am
Why you think the bladder will blow if put inward?
I think once you blow it up it will unfold (roll down) towards the LE tip.
What is left will be pushed to the LE tip.
I will check it but expect that it is not inward anymore.

Have to say that I have been asking around and so far my problem is not really recognized by others.
Could be it's just me :roll:

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Jelle_vw
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Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:53 pm
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Local Beach: Zandmotor (Netherlands)
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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Jelle_vw » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:30 am

Thnx for your feedback Gigi. You convinced me to put it back in the retainer. I will simply check it every few months or so to see if there is no damage. :thumb:

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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Pemba » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:43 am

Do you think you could "protect" the thinning part of the bladder that's exposed to the retainer by sticking an extra layer onto it ? You know the transparent stuff with the sticky side you can buy per metre. Or even glue a piece of old bladder onto it ?

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Jelle_vw
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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Jelle_vw » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:30 pm

You have to strech the retainer to put the bladder trough. So I think nothing wil hold. Maybe put a piece of cloth around the bladder will help.

But do you have what I have? So far it looks like I am the only one so I would not worrie to much about it. I will just keep an eye on it.


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