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LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

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Dietsdontworkuk
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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Dietsdontworkuk » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:10 pm

I’ve had a V1 enduro 11m suffer a slow leak which I sent off to fix - repairer said some sand grains inside the bladder had caused the leak. I was wondering how sand grains inside could cause a problem (they would not be under pressure, so how could they cause a leak) but now I am beginning to have suspicions.

I have now had my 9m returned after selling on eBay with a slow leak - when returned I will check the bladder, but both kites were little used and showed zero signs of wear or marks on the LE.

I won’t be surprised if this is again the same thing.

Thanks for this post though as I think it’s unravelled a mystery for me.

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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Craz Z » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:42 pm

Sand grains pose no threat when pumped up. although problably bouncing around while flying.
its when you fold it pack it and let the air out, lay on it to fit the bag. they are abrasive and will for sure create pinholes. The new fast inflation systems allow this to happen as before i never ever had sand in a bladder and have recently within the last year had a few bladders fail with sand and small pebbles (real small) boston valves are the biggest offenders

If possible try to carry your kite to a safe location either grass or behind a dune or somewhere shit isn't blowing all over when you open up your bladder to the elements when packing away.

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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby iriejohn » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:54 pm

If the pump does not have a filter then if you pump up where there's fine sand/dust/grit being carried by the wind it can be pumped into the bladder.

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downunder
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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby downunder » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:21 am

^
Guys, you completely missed the point, sorry. If you don't bother to read what the OP raised as a concern, than the replies are not relevant.

What's relevant is the bladder retainer inside the LE securing the bladder in place. That retainer WILL force anything inside the bladder to rub against the same, abrading it, and eventually making the bladder thinner or punctured. Actually, here is no need for anything inside the bladder, the retainer itself will do it eventually because it IS that strong in quite concentrated area.

D.

Dietsdontworkuk
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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Dietsdontworkuk » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:55 pm

Ok understood re the sand inside abrading the bladder when deflated and packed down; I had naish kites before with same Boston valves but no problems, although I soon switched to ozone so maybe I didn't have them long enough. So the slow leaks may be Boston related or retainer related - I will check the bladder myself when I get the kite back and let you know!.

Incidentally, I know some of you are on enduro V2 - are your bags ridiculously large? I have 7/9/11/14 and the bags seem about right except my 9m bag is exactly the same size as my 11 - so too big. No biggie but I usually take the 9 as hand baggage - this year the bag is too big!

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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby iriejohn » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:01 pm

Dietsdontworkuk wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:55 pm
Ok understood re the sand inside abrading the bladder when deflated and packed down; I had naish kites before with same Boston valves but no problems, although I soon switched to ozone so maybe I didn't have them long enough. So the slow leaks may be Boston related or retainer related - I will check the bladder myself when I get the kite back and let you know!.

Incidentally, I know some of you are on enduro V2 - are your bags ridiculously large? I have 7/9/11/14 and the bags seem about right except my 9m bag is exactly the same size as my 11 - so too big. No biggie but I usually take the 9 as hand baggage - this year the bag is too big!
I have Enduro V2 6/8/10/12 and they fit the bags just nicely. It's your 7/9/11 odd sizes that are the problem. :wink:

Dietsdontworkuk
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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Dietsdontworkuk » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:20 pm

I see. Or perhaps odd numbers that aren’t a prime :roll:

I’m such a nerd I took a photo.
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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby knotwindy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:07 pm

Better too big than too small...

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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby Craz Z » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:27 pm

iriejohn wrote: If the pump does not have a filter then if you pump up where there's fine sand/dust/grit being carried by the wind it can be pumped into the bladder.
Thanks good advice I always try to blow a few pumps to clear anything and also will blow on the connector (if you have the updated boston specific screw on that can hide some dirt.)
downunder wrote: Guys, you completely missed the point, sorry. If you don't bother to read what the OP raised as a concern, than the replies are not relevant.
Yes I understand the issue was only throwing out other potential causes for bladder failures. the constant stretching can weaken and ruin a bladder at the wingtips some of the slingys have bungee retainers as well. Dont have a fix for that as that's the way it was setup. I didn't see a problem with the old way of just folding up and resecuring the velcro like has been done for ever on older generation kites.
Dietsdontworkuk wrote: Ok understood re the sand inside abrading the bladder when deflated and packed down; I had naish kites before with same Boston valves but no problems, although I soon switched to ozone so maybe I didn't have them long enough.
I dont think it has anything to do with brands its the fact of opening a huge hole to allow dirt to come in. All it takes is one mistake hurrying to pack it up or a wet kite that attracts all the debris around and can fall in. Its almost flush with the leading edge whereas the old nipple deflates were raised some not to mention smaller lessening the risk of dirt getting in. No matter what fast inflation is a time saver and wouldn't be without anymore.

Really tho the only way to inspect would be to take the bladder out and who's gonna do that unless your repairing or replacing the bladder including this other problem of a bungee noose strangulating and stretching
the tips.

Short story I had a kite of another brand with a slow leak that was around 3 hours to noodling. I soaped and watered it and was certain it was the boston valve threads leaking (which they were) I replaced the boston valve with a new one and no more bubbles. kite was still leaking slower but still leaking. finally just bought a replacement from airtime. I pulled it out and found sand and small pebbles while searching for the leak. I have no idea how, if you did catch them you would get them out.

I'm now much more careful and take my time or find a better spot to pack down to hopefully alleviate the potential to introduce dirt. Still thinking of a way to not fully unthread the valve and let air out but it would take too long. and may hurt the threads.
knotwindy wrote:Better too big than too small...
For sure who cares if its too big! The smaller bags put more pressure on bigger kites and increase wear on stitching and everything else inside. May just buy some stuff sacks and save the bag for resell (this is recommended for paragliders as well especially for longer storage periods). One bag fits all only works when they use the largest kite in the fleet as a starting point. they are getting smaller and smaller every year.

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Re: LE bladder wear by elastic bladder retainer inside tip (Ozone)

Postby iriejohn » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:01 pm

Dietsdontworkuk wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:20 pm
I see. Or perhaps odd numbers that aren’t a prime :roll:

I’m such a nerd I took a photo.
Looks like a 10 would fit those bags just nicely. :lol:


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