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Disadvantages of wave kites

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Slappysan
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Re: Disadvantages of wave kites

Postby Slappysan » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:43 pm

clint2070 wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:18 am
Punt ? If I didn't see it for my own eyes I would say it was velcro !
Not sure what he's using for wax but mostly he's just riding in 30 knots of wind. Once you get up over 25 knots boards stick like glue if you have the angle right regardless of traction.

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Re: Disadvantages of wave kites

Postby jespin4845 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:17 am

yea that 2nd part of the vid is from Rufus, easy 30 knot afternoon and sine wave chest "swell"

epic spot

still he has mad skills, Im still trying to learn backroll without the damn grab

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Re: Disadvantages of wave kites

Postby Matteo V » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:10 am

jespin4845 wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:17 am
Im still trying to learn backroll without the damn grab
I second the "great vid". Almost makes me want to leave the coast for the Gorge.

For a no hands backroll, try not doing such a hard initial movement upwind when starting the roll motion while on the water. If you push too hard upwind early on (initiation) then the kite catches you and yanks you downwind somewhere mid roll. Strapless is all about limiting the power of a move. If you are used to straps, you are used to going for the power instead of avoiding it.

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Re: Disadvantages of wave kites

Postby clint2070 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:01 am

Matteo V wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:10 am
jespin4845 wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:17 am
Im still trying to learn backroll without the damn grab
I second the "great vid". Almost makes me want to leave the coast for the Gorge.

For a no hands backroll, try not doing such a hard initial movement upwind when starting the roll motion while on the water. If you push too hard upwind early on (initiation) then the kite catches you and yanks you downwind somewhere mid roll. Strapless is all about limiting the power of a move. If you are used to straps, you are used to going for the power instead of avoiding it.
you've convinced me to try that. Im kiting in 13mph in san diego though. I need my monkey wax !

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Re: Disadvantages of wave kites

Postby Matteo V » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:11 pm

clint2070 wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:01 am
I need my monkey wax !
And here we go with the strap fight!

If you want to go strapless, just use pads and forget the wax.

But there is a secret wax, that I use exclusively, called West System 105. I mix the 2 part stuff, then stick down my booties over night with them. The next day, I have wax that is better than any other wax on the market because my booties will never come off the board again. Sure I have to put on the board like a wakeboard, but everyone sees me strapless so it's cool.

Just kidding!


Bottom line is if you are looking for the best wax, it is straps. If you go strapless, I do not get why you would want stick to the board as well as with straps. I never could pull off a kick flip with wax on the board unless I dumped enough sand on it to make it not stick for a while. I then realized that just using a front foot pad was the way to make kick flips WAY easier.

Though I do not really kite strapless anymore, I went through this. And again, if your goal is to stick to the board, use straps. If you goal is to be strapless, use skill to keep the board in contact with your feet.

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Re: Disadvantages of wave kites

Postby Do-it » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:44 am

halloi wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:01 pm
i have a BEST Cabo quiver and fumkin' love that kite!
are there kites out there that jump higher? i bet.
kites out there with better depower? probably not.
if you surf waves get a wave kite, if you ride freestyle strapless get a wave kite, if you like low bar pressure get a wave kite,
if you like boosting to the moon without hassle on a tt get a freeride kite.

just my 2 cents.

and because i love this clip of the Cabo im gonna share it with you guys ; )

phpBB [video]

enjoy

ps: yes, hes using some punt on that board :naughty:
Ummmmmm. .....where the fuck were the waves???

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Re: Disadvantages of wave kites

Postby clint2070 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:47 am

Matteo V wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:11 pm
clint2070 wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:01 am
I need my monkey wax !
And here we go with the strap fight!

If you want to go strapless, just use pads and forget the wax.

But there is a secret wax, that I use exclusively, called West System 105. I mix the 2 part stuff, then stick down my booties over night with them. The next day, I have wax that is better than any other wax on the market because my booties will never come off the board again. Sure I have to put on the board like a wakeboard, but everyone sees me strapless so it's cool.

Just kidding!


Bottom line is if you are looking for the best wax, it is straps. If you go strapless, I do not get why you would want stick to the board as well as with straps. I never could pull off a kick flip with wax on the board unless I dumped enough sand on it to make it not stick for a while. I then realized that just using a front foot pad was the way to make kick flips WAY easier.

Though I do not really kite strapless anymore, I went through this. And again, if your goal is to stick to the board, use straps. If you goal is to be strapless, use skill to keep the board in contact with your feet.
Not all of us have strong enough wind to keep the board to our feet. Try your theory in 13mph and see how it goes. Straps suck ! They get in the way and when on a surfboard you need to re poison your feet all the time. with straps you're screwed. driving down the line you need to be forward on the board. slashing off the top you need to be on the tail, so on and so on. seems like you're a flat water directional rider. If you were to ride waves i think your opinion would be different. I'm riding somewhat strapless on my foil now too. the straps were hindering my protection. Straps are for Twin Tips ! Nothing more.

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Re: Disadvantages of wave kites

Postby Matteo V » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:20 am

clint2070 wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:47 am
Straps suck ! They get in the way and when on a surfboard you need to re poison your feet all the time. with straps you're screwed.
Disclaimer - I started out as a dedicated strapless rider, now I am dedicated to straps for more performance. But don't let me tell you which is better for you. Figure it out for yourself and try both. In order to try both, you must learn to jibe with a 90% success rate WITH THE STRAPS FIRST. Then try strapless and see if you can at least get some strapless airs, make some kick-flip attempts, and maybe even try a backroll. This will give you a feel for both.

DO NOT GO STRAPLESS FIRST! As clint2070 has stated above, if you go strapless first, you will think you need to move your feet all the time and the straps will feel funny. But worse than that, is that you will not be able to jibe easily when you try to learn the straps later. If you learned strapless first, and can jibe that way, you will think it is good. Then when you try strapped, you will be falling in the water at the end of each tack. This forces you to go back to strapless to have a good time. Learn the strapped jibe first and get it down before you move onto strapless or forever a strapless rider you will be.


Given my experience of buying into the strapless hype early on, and then later realizing that it was just a limitation, I have done some serious examination on this subject. My personal style is to use the kite, or not, on the wave. Sometimes I go for a "surfer with a kite" ride. But most of the time I go for a kitesurfer ride as I like to put both together to make it into something more that the sum of it's parts.


Move your feet argument -
On a SUP board (surfing with no kite) you need to move your feet long distances to vary the pressure on the board according to where your are in your wave ride. A longboard is close to the same with some big movements required. Then a "fun board" requires much less movement. Then a shortboard requires even less movement on the wave. Tow in boards???.....they have straps. But once you get down to a board that is sized right for a kite (too small to prone surf), you really are riding a board too small to require any significant movement on that board.

Straps on a kitesurfboard (not over sized) actually allow you to pressure the board in many different ways. With straps, you can even lose some rocker on the board (or just chop the nose) and make up for less rocker with upward pressure on the front strap. Some low rockered boards could never be ridden on a steep wave face without straps. The ability to pressure the board in different ways without moving your feet is why straps yield a higher performance in waves.


If you looked at my profile on the right, you would see that I do get some coastal riding. Actually about 3months of it straight, in the summer. And yes, Clint, straps are for TT's. But they are for surfboards too if you want to push the envelope of what is possible. If you want to just simulate surfing by being a surfer with a kite, then go strapless and enjoy. My only issue with you is that I know where you are as I have been there before. I also swallowed the strapless pill and did it for a long time. Then I coughed it up and spit it out on the sidewalk. You may do this one day too.

For everyone else.....Just try to avoid the hype and do both strapped and strapless to figure out what is to your liking.

clint2070
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Re: Disadvantages of wave kites

Postby clint2070 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:42 am

Matteo V wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:20 am
clint2070 wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:47 am
Straps suck ! They get in the way and when on a surfboard you need to re poison your feet all the time. with straps you're screwed.
Disclaimer - I started out as a dedicated strapless rider, now I am dedicated to straps for more performance. But don't let me tell you which is better for you. Figure it out for yourself and try both. In order to try both, you must learn to jibe with a 90% success rate WITH THE STRAPS FIRST. Then try strapless and see if you can at least get some strapless airs, make some kick-flip attempts, and maybe even try a backroll. This will give you a feel for both.

DO NOT GO STRAPLESS FIRST! As clint2070 has stated above, if you go strapless first, you will think you need to move your feet all the time and the straps will feel funny. But worse than that, is that you will not be able to jibe easily when you try to learn the straps later. If you learned strapless first, and can jibe that way, you will think it is good. Then when you try strapped, you will be falling in the water at the end of each tack. This forces you to go back to strapless to have a good time. Learn the strapped jibe first and get it down before you move onto strapless or forever a strapless rider you will be.


Given my experience of buying into the strapless hype early on, and then later realizing that it was just a limitation, I have done some serious examination on this subject. My personal style is to use the kite, or not, on the wave. Sometimes I go for a "surfer with a kite" ride. But most of the time I go for a kitesurfer ride as I like to put both together to make it into something more that the sum of it's parts.


Move your feet argument -
On a SUP board (surfing with no kite) you need to move your feet long distances to vary the pressure on the board according to where your are in your wave ride. A longboard is close to the same with some big movements required. Then a "fun board" requires much less movement. Then a shortboard requires even less movement on the wave. Tow in boards???.....they have straps. But once you get down to a board that is sized right for a kite (too small to prone surf), you really are riding a board too small to require any significant movement on that board.

Straps on a kitesurfboard (not over sized) actually allow you to pressure the board in many different ways. With straps, you can even lose some rocker on the board (or just chop the nose) and make up for less rocker with upward pressure on the front strap. Some low rockered boards could never be ridden on a steep wave face without straps. The ability to pressure the board in different ways without moving your feet is why straps yield a higher performance in waves.


If you looked at my profile on the right, you would see that I do get some coastal riding. Actually about 3months of it straight, in the summer. And yes, Clint, straps are for TT's. But they are for surfboards too if you want to push the envelope of what is possible. If you want to just simulate surfing by being a surfer with a kite, then go strapless and enjoy. My only issue with you is that I know where you are as I have been there before. I also swallowed the strapless pill and did it for a long time. Then I coughed it up and spit it out on the sidewalk. You may do this one day too.

For everyone else.....Just try to avoid the hype and do both strapped and strapless to figure out what is to your liking.
To each his own but I just think it looks funny when some guy is on a strapped board using the power of his kite rather than the force of the wave. Edging back and forth just to get a powered hack off the top and when they do get an air it just looks bad. straps are for beginners.I don't think there is a pro riding straps anymore. Its also a good way to twist your knees and ankles. I do have a strapped board but I rarely use it. I break it out when I have the desire to jump high or hall ass !

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Re: Disadvantages of wave kites

Postby or6 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:51 am

@Matteo,

A convincing argument for straps, although I don't see why people should argue about it in the first place.

One flaw in your argument though; it is very much possible to push the envelope kitesurfing strapless.

Another flaw, if I may call it such, is the one about the tow-in boards. They are custom-made boards, for a specific surfer, with the straps positioned for full speed wide turns. Because that's what they are used for. While I agree that wavekiters do just that a lot of the time, it is not the only way we ride the boards.

Regards, or6


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