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Switch Element5 vs Cabrinha Drifter

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mikelet
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Re: Switch Element5 vs Cabrinha Drifter

Postby mikelet » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:09 pm

Danidr : yes,winkrels it's not the word , but you define It perfectly ...thanks for the info..

iriejohn
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Re: Switch Element5 vs Cabrinha Drifter

Postby iriejohn » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:40 pm

Matteo V wrote:So most surfboards you see people riding are bad shapes for the conditions they are in because they purchased based on looks.
You will firstly need to demonstrate that the majority of people actually "are riding bad shapes for the conditions they are riding in" then thereafter demonstrate that this majority purchased these "bad shaped" boards "based on looks" - a direct correlation. Good luck.

Faxie
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Re: Switch Element5 vs Cabrinha Drifter

Postby Faxie » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:42 pm

About the panels:

It's not just about the width. It's about the connection with the LE, shape of the LE, and sewing/panel layout techniques.

More panels means more chance of errors, more weak spots (kites almost always rip right next to the seam) Switch LE's have a very smooth curve, smoother than Cabrinha's. Combine that with the right construction for sewing, and you can have a very smooth and defined profile. Cloth somes from the same factory in Taiwan I've been told, though Cab is made to specification. And wrinkles will be less visible with busy graphics offcourse. Doesn't mean they're not there. And foil kites are even more wrinkles... don't hear anyone complain about the performance on those :P

Say in a few years, the kites will have panels with a width of only 5cm's... would that be better? Off course not. So there's a tipping point. And looking at most other brands, they all have the same panelwidth. I personally think the smaller segments all things considered are not better or worse in the end, but a good marketing tool. Zeeko uses the same kind of marketing (naish too I believe? ) but with smaller LE segments in stead of panel segments.

And consider North kites too.... they have a very curved LE and very big panels, and somehow manage to perform decently. (battens, though not every model has them, but I'm not sure)

Haven't flow E5 of Drifter btw, but E4 has comparable drift to ReoV3. Reo is a bit better, but Element more stable in gusty winds. E5 should be an improvent. For what it's worth...

Matteo V
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Re: Switch Element5 vs Cabrinha Drifter

Postby Matteo V » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:15 am

iriejohn wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:40 pm

You will firstly need to demonstrate that the majority of people actually "are riding bad shapes for the conditions they are riding in" then thereafter demonstrate that this majority purchased these "bad shaped" boards "based on looks" - a direct correlation. Good luck.
Please note that there is no real helpful substance in the following reply. I should have deleted or revised it to one paragraph. But I chose to leave it as originally written for a bit of good old friendly trolling. The last two sentences of the post sum it up, so skip ahead.

(note: this is a bit off topic - the original statement iriejohn is apparently referring to was presented as an analogy and refers to prone surfing, not kitesurfing)

Ooooooooweeee. Need a Meeseeks box for this one. And, alas, as I do not have one so I must roll back my statement. Very difficult to prove and your questioning is helpful calling that to attention. Something I had assumed was the product of experienced (lightly) prone surfing knowledge and seemingly easily verifiable by others, may just be the product of my own experience and local. But that does not detract from the conviction I have, at least at this particular local. However, I would like to tally others observers views on this particular issue more in depth than I have in the past. Mr. Meeseeks would be nice to have a few of.

So back to the conjecture thing.....at mediocre beach breaks at my summer haunt, the waves are inevitably beach break waist to chest with overhead on occasion (this year was lousy for size) and considerable mushiness. Observation would indicate most narrow tailed shortboard users (majority) find it extremely difficult to catch a wave for even an initial ride. Most wider tailed (fish and wide tailed like "mini Simmons" of similar length) out perform with respect to wave count and continuation past initial drop in. So why do the majority of the surfers use traditional "pretty looking" shortboard surfboards vs the uglier wide tailed shortboards that perform at a higher wave count.......my assumption is preference toward boards that look good (sells) vs boards that actually produce more time riding (don't sell cuz they ugly).

Of the 3-4 dozen times I have watched riders before or after my session, or while injured for a day, I have noticed a definitive pattern to the "ugly" board riders success to the pretty board riders success. Of those times, approximately half have been where I was aware of the skill level of riders on both styles of board. The pattern was consistently in favor of ugly board riders catching more waves and doing more on them. This is not surprising as the ugly boards are designed to catch more waves in mediocre conditions. Also, there could be some bias inherent with knowing that. I must admit I could not hope to control for riders confidence in riding an ugly board, lack thereof on a prettier board, for the given conditions of the days when I did not surf myself. Observations while on the water are suspect of personal bias according to how the day went for myself, so I will not mention those.

But more to the point, what other reason could there be for a lack of these ugly boards at these breaks with these conditions? If the ugly boards work better, why is the majority not using them? Availability? - if so then that is indicative of shops not wanting to stock those boards because they wont sell - "chicken or the egg" anyone?


So after that drivel......Could you put fourth a counter argument to the alternative (ugly) boards being superior, but not used - cause they do not sell well for use in the aforementioned conditions? Or would you concur with the hypothesis? Or were you just looking to see if I would fall flat on my face in a discussion you have little care or stake in? Care to elaborate on your stake or reasoning in dissent? Ha ha made you read it all. That is a part of your life you will never get back.
Last edited by Matteo V on Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:20 pm, edited 7 times in total.

iriejohn
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Re: Switch Element5 vs Cabrinha Drifter

Postby iriejohn » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:06 am

Matteo V wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:15 am
iriejohn wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:40 pm

You will firstly need to demonstrate that the majority of people actually "are riding bad shapes for the conditions they are riding in" then thereafter demonstrate that this majority purchased these "bad shaped" boards "based on looks" - a direct correlation. Good luck.
(note: this is a bit off topic - the origional statement iriejohn is apparently referring to was presented as an analogy and refers to prone surfing, not kitesurfing)

Ooooooooweeee. Need a Meeseeks box for this one. And, alas, as I do not have one so I must roll back my statement. Very difficult to prove and your questioning is helpful calling that to attention. Something I had assumed was the product of experienced (lightly) prone surfing knowledge and seemingly easily verifiable by others, may just be the product of my own experience and local. But that does not detract from the conviction I have, at least at this particular local. However, I would like to tally others observers views on this particular issue more in depth than I have in the past. Mr. Meeseeks would be nice to have a few of.

So back to the conjecture thing.....at mediocre beach breaks at my summer haunt, the waves are inevitably beach break waist to chest with overhead on occasion (this year was lousy for size) and considerable mushiness. Observation would indicate most narrow tailed shortboard users (majority) find it extremely difficult to catch a wave for even an initial ride. Most wider tailed (fish and wide tailed like "mini Simmons" of similar length) out perform with respect to wave count and continuation past initial drop in. So why do the majority of the surfers use traditional "pretty looking" shortboard surfboards vs the uglier wide tailed shortboards that perform at a higher wave count.......my assumption is preference toward boards that look good (sells) vs boards that actually produce more time riding (don't sell cuz they ugly).

Of the 3-4 dozen times I have watched riders before or after my session, or while injured for a day, I have noticed a definitive pattern to the "ugly" board riders success to the pretty board riders success. Of those times, approximately half have been where I was aware of the skill level of riders on both styles of board. The pattern was consistently in favor of ugly board riders catching more waves and doing more on them. This is not surprising as the ugly boards are designed to catch more waves in mediocre conditions. Also, there could be some bias inherent with knowing that. I must admit I could not hope to control for riders confidence in riding an ugly board, lack thereof on a prettier board, for the given conditions of the days when I did not surf myself. Observations while on the water are suspect of personal bias according to how the day went for myself, so I will not mention those.

But more to the point, what other reason could there be for a lack of these ugly boards at these breaks with these conditions? If the ugly boards work better, why is the majority not using them? Availability? - if so then that is indicative of shops not wanting to stock those boards because they wont sell - "chicken or the egg" anyone?


So after that drivel......Could you put fourth a counter argument to the alternative (ugly) boards being superior, but not used - cause they do not sell well for use in the aforementioned conditions? Or would you concur with the hypothesis? Or were you just looking to see if I would fall flat on my face in a discussion you have little care or stake in? Care to elaborate on your stake or reasoning in dissent? Ha ha made you read it all. That is a part of your life you will never get back.
Not as much as you lost writing (sic) that verbal diarrhoea. :lol:

Faxie
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Style: Freeride, freestyle, wave.
Gear: Switch Helium V1 18m Element V3 13m-7m V4 9m-5m Legacy V1 10m-14m Slingshot Fuel 2005
Switch MJComp V2 136x41.5 Firewire Hellrazor 6.1 timbertek Shinn Shinnster Nobile 555 125x38
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Switch Element5 vs Cabrinha Drifter

Postby Faxie » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:04 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:15 am
iriejohn wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:40 pm

You will firstly need to demonstrate that the majority of people actually "are riding bad shapes for the conditions they are riding in" then thereafter demonstrate that this majority purchased these "bad shaped" boards "based on looks" - a direct correlation. Good luck.
(note: this is a bit off topic - the origional statement iriejohn is apparently referring to was presented as an analogy and refers to prone surfing, not kitesurfing)

Ooooooooweeee. Need a Meeseeks box for this one. And, alas, as I do not have one so I must roll back my statement. Very difficult to prove and your questioning is helpful calling that to attention. Something I had assumed was the product of experienced (lightly) prone surfing knowledge and seemingly easily verifiable by others, may just be the product of my own experience and local. But that does not detract from the conviction I have, at least at this particular local. However, I would like to tally others observers views on this particular issue more in depth than I have in the past. Mr. Meeseeks would be nice to have a few of.

So back to the conjecture thing.....at mediocre beach breaks at my summer haunt, the waves are inevitably beach break waist to chest with overhead on occasion (this year was lousy for size) and considerable mushiness. Observation would indicate most narrow tailed shortboard users (majority) find it extremely difficult to catch a wave for even an initial ride. Most wider tailed (fish and wide tailed like "mini Simmons" of similar length) out perform with respect to wave count and continuation past initial drop in. So why do the majority of the surfers use traditional "pretty looking" shortboard surfboards vs the uglier wide tailed shortboards that perform at a higher wave count.......my assumption is preference toward boards that look good (sells) vs boards that actually produce more time riding (don't sell cuz they ugly).

Of the 3-4 dozen times I have watched riders before or after my session, or while injured for a day, I have noticed a definitive pattern to the "ugly" board riders success to the pretty board riders success. Of those times, approximately half have been where I was aware of the skill level of riders on both styles of board. The pattern was consistently in favor of ugly board riders catching more waves and doing more on them. This is not surprising as the ugly boards are designed to catch more waves in mediocre conditions. Also, there could be some bias inherent with knowing that. I must admit I could not hope to control for riders confidence in riding an ugly board, lack thereof on a prettier board, for the given conditions of the days when I did not surf myself. Observations while on the water are suspect of personal bias according to how the day went for myself, so I will not mention those.

But more to the point, what other reason could there be for a lack of these ugly boards at these breaks with these conditions? If the ugly boards work better, why is the majority not using them? Availability? - if so then that is indicative of shops not wanting to stock those boards because they wont sell - "chicken or the egg" anyone?


So after that drivel......Could you put fourth a counter argument to the alternative (ugly) boards being superior, but not used - cause they do not sell well for use in the aforementioned conditions? Or would you concur with the hypothesis? Or were you just looking to see if I would fall flat on my face in a discussion you have little care or stake in? Care to elaborate on your stake or reasoning in dissent? Ha ha made you read it all. That is a part of your life you will never get back.
:lol:

Matteo V
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Re: Switch Element5 vs Cabrinha Drifter

Postby Matteo V » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:10 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:06 am

Not as much as you lost writing (sic) that verbal diarrhoea. :lol:
Ya, I composed it in complete sincerity. But when I re-read it 2 times, I saw what steamer it was. Then I thought about deleting it and just leaving up the challenge for you to explain your motivation and reasoning for dissent. Figuring you would still avoid that question, I decided not to let the whole thing go to waste. Thanks for reading - I knew you could not resist.

Sorry, - to everyone else that sifted through that. I probably should delete it since it has done it's job. Maybe just a warning at the top so no one goes into the temple looking for the golden idol that has already been removed from the pedestal.

P.S. iriejohn - it is written diarrhea, not verbal diarrhea.

BigZ
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Re: Switch Element5 vs Cabrinha Drifter

Postby BigZ » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:18 am

Matteo V wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:15 am
iriejohn wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:40 pm

You will firstly need to demonstrate that the majority of people actually "are riding bad shapes for the conditions they are riding in" then thereafter demonstrate that this majority purchased these "bad shaped" boards "based on looks" - a direct correlation. Good luck.
Please note that there is no real helpful substance in the following reply. I should have deleted or revised it to one paragraph. But I chose to leave it as originally written for a bit of good old friendly trolling. The last two sentences of the post sum it up, so skip ahead.

(note: this is a bit off topic - the original statement iriejohn is apparently referring to was presented as an analogy and refers to prone surfing, not kitesurfing)

Ooooooooweeee. Need a Meeseeks box for this one. And, alas, as I do not have one so I must roll back my statement. Very difficult to prove and your questioning is helpful calling that to attention. Something I had assumed was the product of experienced (lightly) prone surfing knowledge and seemingly easily verifiable by others, may just be the product of my own experience and local. But that does not detract from the conviction I have, at least at this particular local. However, I would like to tally others observers views on this particular issue more in depth than I have in the past. Mr. Meeseeks would be nice to have a few of.

So back to the conjecture thing.....at mediocre beach breaks at my summer haunt, the waves are inevitably beach break waist to chest with overhead on occasion (this year was lousy for size) and considerable mushiness. Observation would indicate most narrow tailed shortboard users (majority) find it extremely difficult to catch a wave for even an initial ride. Most wider tailed (fish and wide tailed like "mini Simmons" of similar length) out perform with respect to wave count and continuation past initial drop in. So why do the majority of the surfers use traditional "pretty looking" shortboard surfboards vs the uglier wide tailed shortboards that perform at a higher wave count.......my assumption is preference toward boards that look good (sells) vs boards that actually produce more time riding (don't sell cuz they ugly).

Of the 3-4 dozen times I have watched riders before or after my session, or while injured for a day, I have noticed a definitive pattern to the "ugly" board riders success to the pretty board riders success. Of those times, approximately half have been where I was aware of the skill level of riders on both styles of board. The pattern was consistently in favor of ugly board riders catching more waves and doing more on them. This is not surprising as the ugly boards are designed to catch more waves in mediocre conditions. Also, there could be some bias inherent with knowing that. I must admit I could not hope to control for riders confidence in riding an ugly board, lack thereof on a prettier board, for the given conditions of the days when I did not surf myself. Observations while on the water are suspect of personal bias according to how the day went for myself, so I will not mention those.

But more to the point, what other reason could there be for a lack of these ugly boards at these breaks with these conditions? If the ugly boards work better, why is the majority not using them? Availability? - if so then that is indicative of shops not wanting to stock those boards because they wont sell - "chicken or the egg" anyone?


So after that drivel......Could you put fourth a counter argument to the alternative (ugly) boards being superior, but not used - cause they do not sell well for use in the aforementioned conditions? Or would you concur with the hypothesis? Or were you just looking to see if I would fall flat on my face in a discussion you have little care or stake in? Care to elaborate on your stake or reasoning in dissent? Ha ha made you read it all. That is a part of your life you will never get back.
Off your meds again ...

Matteo V
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Gear: Delta Kites and LF Kitefish QuadMod
Snowboard (Cambered and Rockered)
Foil kites on the snow
Brand Affiliation: NONE F--- the corporate world

Re: Switch Element5 vs Cabrinha Drifter

Postby Matteo V » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:39 pm

BigZ wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:18 am

Off your meds again ...
Jeeeze! I wasn't trolling you. By the time you came across this, I had edited it to warn others not to read it. You kind of trolled yourself.

iriejohn
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Re: Switch Element5 vs Cabrinha Drifter

Postby iriejohn » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:40 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:39 pm
BigZ wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:18 am

Off your meds again ...
Jeeeze! I wasn't trolling you. By the time you came across this, I had edited it to warn others not to read it. You kind of trolled yourself.
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