Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

How to make a high Y bar ?

forum for kitesurfers


User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4704
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton

Re: How to make a high Y bar ?

Postby edt » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:09 pm

Lokihel wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:32 pm
Putting a bolt through a thin kite line REALLY does not sound like a good idea.

You will be causing all sorts of problems with the line spread open like that.
The reason that a line might become weak is because of how tight the angle is when it bends. This is why if you knot dyneema it loses about 50% of it's strength but it is ok to use a lark's head, which is of course how we attach our lines, as the lark's head has much lower angle than an overhand knot has. When you have an overhand knot in the line the sharpness of the angle causes the line to heat up when it is pulled, and it can reach over 200 degree at which point dyneema loses it's long molecular bonds and that's when a line will fail. There is nothing special intrinsically about putting a bolt through a line that makes it dangerous. I'm not suggesting a 1 pound eye bolt that you use for structural support on a bridge rather a very small few gram bolt with a 2 mm line that is just barely big enough for the line to go through. Maybe you know of some specific problems using bolt that I haven't though of? Now normally I would suggest a spliced line which can than support the full weight limit of the line if you are doing some structural modification of the line. If you use a spliced line then you can hold something like 600-800 pounds from the spliced line. But in the high of a high Y you only have 2 or 3 pounds of force on the bolt itself, just enough to keep the two lines from separating, so there's no real downward or upwind pressure on the bolt as the line just flows through the line freely when it flags and when it's not flagged you just need enough pressure to pinch the lines together.

Seabizzle
Rare Poster
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:06 am
Kiting since: 2
Local Beach: Woodmans point, Leighton, Cottesloe, Scarborough
Favorite Beaches: Kite Beach Maui, Augusta Western Australia, Lancelin Western Australia
Style: Surf, Freeride
Gear: BWS Noise pro 10m, BWS noise classic 6m, Naish Fly 17m, Wainman Gambler 5'10"(R.I.P.) North Pro series 6'2, unidentified twin tip
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: How to make a high Y bar ?

Postby Seabizzle » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:37 pm

Thanks very much for the replies guys, the idea with putting a bolt through the line is interesting or possibly getting some parts from other bars, I will let you know how i go

Lokihel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:36 am
Kiting since: 2050
Style: Yes
Gear: North Dice
Shinn Monk the One
North Nugget
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: How to make a high Y bar ?

Postby Lokihel » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:03 pm

If you use a spliced loop make a lark's head to loop around the shaft of the bolt your only problem might be the thread eating into the line, or the line slipping off.
Of course your have something machined with a nice smooth groove to fit the rope, but that would be complicated and go against the idea of simplicity.
That said, having to make two splices in the rope is already not that easy to do if you're unfamiliar with splicing.


However, just taking a normal bolt and forcing it through the line (after making it loose) is a terrible idea.
The loading will be very uneven on the individual strands around the bolt, which WILL weaken the line.
Also, the thread is going to chew through the line twice as fast as with a lark's head.

There is probably a good reason why you don't often see bolts jammed into a rope on a professional job.

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4704
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton

Re: How to make a high Y bar ?

Postby edt » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:15 pm

many depower lines are attached to the cleat with bolt that go thru the center of the line. if you have above the bar depower I would venture to say must do it this way. of course those lines are over spec so it doesn't matter if they weaken but this method is used frequently on the chicken line

foilonfoil
Frequent Poster
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:31 am
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Belmont Shore, CA / Hood River, OR
Favorite Beaches: Crissy Field, San Francisco, CA / Benicia, CA / Sail Bay, San Diego, CA / Hermosa Beach, CA
Style: Kitefoil
Gear: Current: Flysurfer Sonic 2's, Core Section V1's, MikesLab Foil, Camet Boards. Previous: AlpineFoil Carbon 5.0, Spotz Tuna/Shark, Banga
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: How to make a high Y bar ?

Postby foilonfoil » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:33 am

Just loop a small stainless steel ring onto the non flag line and run the flag line through the ring.


Added pic but I did not have flying line or small stainless steel ring handy but you get the idea...
IMG_2096.JPG
IMG_2096.JPG (42.98 KiB) Viewed 440 times
Last edited by foilonfoil on Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

alfredo68
Medium Poster
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:44 am
Kiting since: 2009
Style: wave
Gear: blade
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: How to make a high Y bar ?

Postby alfredo68 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:18 am

foilonfoil wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:33 am
Just loop a small stainless steel ring onto the non flag line and run the flag line through the ring.
This one sounds good and simple :thumb:

pmania
Rare Poster
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:10 pm
Kiting since: 2003
Local Beach: Workum
Favorite Beaches: Nice beach at the sea, with some good waves!
Style: freestyle
Gear: Switch Legacy v2 9m, Element v3 9m & Nitro v3 12m Controller 3 and MJ 140x43 Pansh A15 18m
Naish Aero 14m North Rhino 9 10m Jaime Pro 5 M
Old & broken: North Rhino's 5 10m+14m Rhino 6 14m and vegas 7 7m F-One Impact 6 9m
Location: NL

Re: How to make a high Y bar ?

Postby pmania » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:49 am


iriejohn
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 724
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:04 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: West Sussex
Gear: this 'n that
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: South coast, UK

Re: How to make a high Y bar ?

Postby iriejohn » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:16 am

As far as I can see the main thing to be aware of when flying a kite designed for a high Y on a low V is that the front line lengths may need to be adjusted. At the kite end for one kite in low V quiver, otherwise on the front lines.

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4704
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton

Re: How to make a high Y bar ?

Postby edt » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:19 pm

foilonfoil wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:33 am
Just loop a small stainless steel ring onto the non flag line and run the flag line through the ring.


Added pic but I did not have flying line or small stainless steel ring handy but you get the idea...

IMG_2096.JPG
I've tried this ring idea before, and have also seen it suggested before but the truth is that lark's head loosens and it will move all over the place. So I don't like it. I like my suggestion of a small bolt above, but it was criticized above and it's true that it's possible a bolt might weaken the line I dunno, it's worth a try. In the past I have just made a small splice and attached the ring on the splice. Right now I have only V bars no Y bars but if I were to make one right now I would use a tiny bolt and see what happens. Worst that happens is you snap a line and have to swim in. try the ring idea! maybe it will stick in place for you, but it never worked for me.

foilonfoil
Frequent Poster
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:31 am
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Belmont Shore, CA / Hood River, OR
Favorite Beaches: Crissy Field, San Francisco, CA / Benicia, CA / Sail Bay, San Diego, CA / Hermosa Beach, CA
Style: Kitefoil
Gear: Current: Flysurfer Sonic 2's, Core Section V1's, MikesLab Foil, Camet Boards. Previous: AlpineFoil Carbon 5.0, Spotz Tuna/Shark, Banga
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: How to make a high Y bar ?

Postby foilonfoil » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:08 pm

edt wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:19 pm
foilonfoil wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:33 am
Just loop a small stainless steel ring onto the non flag line and run the flag line through the ring.


Added pic but I did not have flying line or small stainless steel ring handy but you get the idea...

IMG_2096.JPG
try the ring idea! maybe it will stick in place for you, but it never worked for me.
Double larks head ;) I believe there are other knots you could use which would be just as effective before needing to use a bolt.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], bri7, Yahoo [Bot] and 18 guests

cron