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fone bandit on 2017 north trust bar?

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Ice101
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fone bandit on 2017 north trust bar?

Postby Ice101 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:16 pm

Hi any one know if the bandit flies ok in the north 2017 trust bar? I fly mine on ozone bars without probs but my girlfriend has shorter arms and can't reach the depower and throw too long. Looking at the trust bar as you can alter the throw and cleat height which is a nifty feature. But the y split height is very high on the trust bar higher than the fone bar point. Does it work with the bandits?

Cheers for any advice given.

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Re: fone bandit on 2017 north trust bar?

Postby nothing2seehere » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:58 pm

It will most likely fly well. I fly my Ocean Rodeo flites on a trust bar and prefer the feel to using a low V bar. The quad bar still has a relatively low Y split which is unlikely to be more than a metre or 2 different from the f-one bar. The Y on the quad bar isn't really that high compared to the 5th element bar.

Your problem will be mixing a dual line flag kite with a single line flag bar. Whilst you personally might be comfortable taking the risk that the safety won't work properly, are you prepared to potentially present this risk to another person (who depending on skill level might not understand the risk and thus be able to make informed choices)?

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alexeyga
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Re: fone bandit on 2017 north trust bar?

Postby alexeyga » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:51 pm

nothing2seehere wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:58 pm
Your problem will be mixing a dual line flag kite with a single line flag bar. Whilst you personally might be comfortable taking the risk that the safety won't work properly, are you prepared to potentially present this risk to another person (who depending on skill level might not understand the risk and thus be able to make informed choices)?
What risk is there? Flagging a dual-lines kite on a single line is perfectly fine - it's the other way around that it will not work.

Ice101
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Re: fone bandit on 2017 north trust bar?

Postby Ice101 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:10 am

I agree. Been using ozone bars on fone kites for last 6 years. Safety never let me down except once beginning of this season as hadn't used my last bar for two years and was very worn. Did the old the lines would be ok for one more trip out. Nope they weren't! One of the likes slipoed the small fone knots at12 o clock. Had to pull the safety but it snapped and released the kite. That was due to poor maintenance though. :-( not the bars fault. Apart from that never a problem. Always flagged fine just like to know some one has used The bar on them and they fly alright before pulling the trigger and spending all that money.

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Re: fone bandit on 2017 north trust bar?

Postby maffhieu » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:24 am

It will work, but you will need to shorten the back lines a little ;)

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Re: fone bandit on 2017 north trust bar?

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:09 am

alexeyga wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:51 pm
nothing2seehere wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:58 pm
Your problem will be mixing a dual line flag kite with a single line flag bar. Whilst you personally might be comfortable taking the risk that the safety won't work properly, are you prepared to potentially present this risk to another person (who depending on skill level might not understand the risk and thus be able to make informed choices)?
What risk is there? Flagging a dual-lines kite on a single line is perfectly fine - it's the other way around that it will not work.
The risk comes from the bridle tuning. Its not simple to design a bridle that will prevent a kite from going into a spin if the QR is released during a turn. Flagging to 2 lines will even out the leading edge pressure and in most cases stop the kite from spinning. If your tow point for the single released line happens to be at/near the axis of turning then the bridle won't stop the kite from turning and the kite will continue to loop in the sky. This can happen anyway to single line flagging kites but the design of the bridle should minimise the chances.

Many manufacturers will say which of their old models work fine on the new bar when they change the bar and which models/years they tested. Best bet would be to find out if F-One retrospectively tested the particular year of kite now they have changed over.

Its a risk I would be happy to take myself - but wouldn't pass on the risk to someone else.

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Re: fone bandit on 2017 north trust bar?

Postby Ice101 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:25 am

Bit there kites since bandit 5 already flagged fine on one line single with the exsisting bridle. I have never had one if there Kites go into a spin yet. Maybe just been lucky. To be fair if you not a beginner you rarely of ever need to pull the release. I can't remember last time I did as letting go of the bar is enough to knock the bandit out the sky safely on the throw alone. That's why they are so good!

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Re: fone bandit on 2017 north trust bar?

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:46 pm

The F-One monolith bar was still dual front line release on last years bar.

As I said. You can take risks for yourself but its not responsible to take on risk for other people. Would you lend a car to someone if the ABS was broken? Sure the brakes work fine for most situations - and an experienced driver can react to the wheels locking up - but I wouldn't feel comfortable about putting someone in that position.

Now I don't know how experienced your girlfriend is (she might be a current or ex pro for all I know) but its worth considering the potential dangers (and potential is the operative word). Just because something hasn't yet gone wrong doesn't mean it never will - that's a naive way of thinking about risk. Then once you have thought about the risks you can mitigate them. This might be as simple as practising both primary and secondary safety releases regularly with your girlfriend so she instinctively gets out of a bad situation without having a scare.

It's better to have thought about what to do before something happens. In general the response to a situation is better if you have thought about what you are going to do if it does happen.

I'm not trying to be critical. Everyone makes their own choices based on the perceived risk of a situation. We get strong gusty winds here so tend to be a little less laissez faire about risk than others. My personal feeling is that it is an excellent bar that will fly the bandit very well indeed - but for the reasons above, I feel I have to let you understand the potential problems rather than just telling you to go for it.

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Re: fone bandit on 2017 north trust bar?

Postby alexeyga » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:35 pm

nothing2seehere wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:09 am
The risk comes from the bridle tuning. Its not simple to design a bridle that will prevent a kite from going into a spin if the QR is released during a turn. Flagging to 2 lines will even out the leading edge pressure and in most cases stop the kite from spinning. If your tow point for the single released line happens to be at/near the axis of turning then the bridle won't stop the kite from turning and the kite will continue to loop in the sky. This can happen anyway to single line flagging kites but the design of the bridle should minimise the chances.

Many manufacturers will say which of their old models work fine on the new bar when they change the bar and which models/years they tested. Best bet would be to find out if F-One retrospectively tested the particular year of kite now they have changed over.

Its a risk I would be happy to take myself - but wouldn't pass on the risk to someone else.

Hmmmm, Imho you're chasing after a black cat in a dark room. Bridle design has absolutely no importance, any kite flagged on either one of the front lines or one of the rear lines - is as safe as it gets. Granted that any kite flagged to a single line will tend to spiral in strong enough winds - being an asymmetrical shape. But it will not loop as in "death-looping", unless it was already death-looping for a really long while before you've manage to release it.

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Re: fone bandit on 2017 north trust bar?

Postby Ice101 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:41 am

Yes you have to way up risk and monolith bar was just too much of a risk. I'd rather take my safety with a single line bat of anyone's than the two line system not only that if the lines go even slightly slack the kite would likely flip and then invert. Doesn't do that halfas much on the ozone single flag bar which has a lower split and should theoretically be more likely to stop that from happening. Hate when it gets really dangerous exspecially with two line safety as the lore will still got to the edge of the window and rela Much on its own with the kite inverted to hell on the monolith. Hey know it wasn't good. Hey have known for years and finally they have addressed it. I would go out and buy one of there new oneas if it was sensible still at around£280 but now your looking at almost half a grand. And yes you may get away with only one bar now cause you can finally change the length but it's still a bar and four lined for that money! Same as it's been for years while prices crept up.
This may sound negative but a I am still a massive massive bandit fan of the Kites. To me they are confidence inspiring and great Kite to fly. I won't be changing.


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