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Hindenburg

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Don Monnot
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Re: Hindenburg

Postby Don Monnot » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:25 pm

Gusty wind alone I can deal with most of the time by just being aware. What usually gives me a hindenburg is when the wind shifts direction while I've got the kite at 10 or 2 o'clock. All of a sudden the kite is outside the wind window and all the lines go slack. Keeping the bar pulled in a bit does help keep the kite farther back in the window which helps, but then it's close to stalling. Ejecting the kite would suck when I'm near shore, since the kite might come down on shore (where people may be unaware of what's happening). I need to keep the kite close to me--not let it fall farther away from me. I'll have to practice the bar flip more often. I usually wind up flipping it the wrong way.

Don

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Re: Hindenburg

Postby knotwindy » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:28 pm

If you have enough board speed and the room, you can try and turn 'upwind' fast to get some tension back into the lines. Doesn't always work but what does?

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edt
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Re: Hindenburg

Postby edt » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:39 pm

Loop it. That will keep the kite in the air even if it reverses direction 180 degrees.

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Re: Hindenburg

Postby Craz Z » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:13 pm

Don Monnot wrote: Ejecting the kite would suck when I'm near shore, since the kite might come down on shore (where people may be unaware of what's happening
Hmm gusty shifty winds that are straight onshore with other people around sounds more like maybe not the best time to go out if it were me.
How shallow is it? can you walk out a kite length? Is there a reason to be so close to shore or are you just trying to get out to cleaner wind?

I've switched to only foiling so i try to stay in the deeps away from shore. I think looping would help as long as you don't sweep it into anyone else that's kiting maybe your the only one out there I don't know?

Even still putting it on safety would take the tension out of the lines and not let the kite totally trash itself if it makes it to shore. If its spinning around you I think i would still eject and start wrapping as fast as i could as once it catches wind and comes back to shore you still have a issue with it being tensioned up.

We fly super gusty conditions around here and there are a few onshore sites where if it did that 1-2 times i'd probably pack it up and fly another day. Is there any other launch sites around that might work better or have a sideon to it?

Stalling the kite on its side isn't as bad as hindenburging and letting it power up straight onshore it may end up finding the new side of the new window and relaunch just the way you want it to just be super active in your lines to no let it get on its back trailing edge down they don't relaunch near as well as you probably know. (another trick for ejecting is it will want to get back on its leading edge then reset and go) I've done this in light winds when it stalled out on its back.

Alot of times just keeping it on its side and super low in the window will help it release some of the energy out the back of the kite and less chance for it to race forward and slack out. like 8-9oclock instead of 10 you could try that. I've used this to take out some devil gusts and wait it out. Waternadoes (water spouts dust devils etc.) are the ones where everything you try will not work! best to stay out of them if possible or again eject and reset when it passes.

The bar flip is something that is often talked about and rarely practiced just do it you'll be glad you did. I don't think in nukin winds i'd do it as a bar wrap is fairly easy to achieve if you make a mistake. Its like the people including myself want to try a directional or a foil but bring all their boards with them and end up on TT for the day cause it was too much hassle. LEAVE IT AT HOME then you won't have a choice but to learn it works great same with the bar wrap do i flip it and keep riding when the wind comes back or head to shore and sort it there 5 minutes or half hour.

Sometimes you gotta work with what your area gives you, so i know kinda what your going through there is a point where it really is not much fun.

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Re: Hindenburg

Postby Hugh2 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:06 am

At least practice the bar flip on land. Invert a small kite in light wind then figure out what to do. We decided best is to release your leash, and reattach it through the middle lines in anticipation of the bar flip, then do the flip. Will not work with a short leash, but as someone noted, having a second long leash helps with that. And we always ride with a second leash on our harnesses for that and other emergencies. I have saved my sessions several times in deep water far from land this way.

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Re: Hindenburg

Postby Bille » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:27 pm

Don Monnot wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:17 am
Sometimes we get super gusty, shifty conditions, especially near shore. Sometimes when I get hit with a big shift in direction, my lines go slack and my kite hindenburgs. If it's a really bad shift, my kite will sometimes wind up upwind of me. That can get a little scary as the lines are then draped all around me.
...
Do you know why the wind gets so shifty ; is it mechanical-turbulence caused
from trees or a mountain perhaps ? Is your kite spot located in a canyon or other ?


Bille

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Re: Hindenburg

Postby sflinux » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:30 pm

Another thumbs up for the BRM Cloud, that kite auto corrects itself so that it sits at the edge of the window.
For strutted kites, I've found that keeping the kite fully powered, helps keep the kite from doing a hindenburg. Many thanks to TopHat for exemplifying this style of riding :thumb:. If you don't feel comfortable riding the kite fully powered, then rig a smaller kite. Having a bar with depower for a strutted kite, only encourages the kite to overfly the wind window.
Another thing that helps is to keep the kite moving, especially near zenith.

Don Monnot
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Re: Hindenburg

Postby Don Monnot » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:08 pm

I'll work on practicing the bar flip on shore. Sounds like a good idea. I agree that doing this in light winds is OK, but stronger winds would be dicey. I also ride with a longer kite leash attached to the back of my harness. Primary leash is a short leash.

The near-shore issue with people/trees along the shoreline is only while I'm trying to get upwind to get away from shore, or while riding back to my launch spot. Bille--the shifty conditions are caused by the shoreline effect. There's an open beach very close to the launch spot that is off-limits for "boating" (which includes kiting). The launch spot is a very narrow gap in the trees that line the shore. The gap is only about 25 ft wide, with tree branches for a canopy. You have to snake your kite through the opening by hand, then drift launch. With side-on conditions, the water is pretty deep (mid-chest on me) where I stand to drift launch, so I tend to get blown closer to the tree line when the kite launches. At that point if I drop the kite, it's in the trees. As soon as the kite launches, I fly it away from the trees. That's when it sometimes Hindenburgs due to a wind shift that switches from side-on to straight onshore. That puts the kite outside the wind window without any real warning. The shift in direction is caused by the proximity of the open shoreline (beach) very near the launch spot.

The trees nearby are a fixed hazard, and the people nearby are there because it's a launch spot for hand-launched craft (kayaks, canoes, windsurfers, SUPs and me). Powerboaters are allowed to beach their boats there to load/unload, and then tie up outside the launch spot. It's usually open unless there's a windsurfer taking a quick break in the shallow water, or people launching/landing. When I come in to land with folks present, I'll dump the kite well upwind, and wind up my lines while I drift to shore. Landing's usually not an issue, but the approach to the landing can be a problem. The approach to the landing spot takes me just upwind of the swimming area. If I dump my kite in the middle of the swimming area it's a problem. When I start to approach the swimming area is another situation where I'm close enough to shore to get that shoreline effect that can cause the unexpected hindenburg.

Don

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Re: Hindenburg

Postby knotwindy » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:06 pm

It may be the only launch you have but that sounds just terrible.

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Re: Hindenburg

Postby badgb21 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:19 pm

+1
Not letting your kite get into the situation to start with has to be the best option - or at least try and avoid it.
Resting with an Edge in the shallows on a gusty day, can see it do some odd thing if you lose concentration.

Keep it powered and moving.


Turbaani wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:40 pm
We get gusty wind more then steady wind. Never keep kite at zenith, keep it at 45degrees so if it starts to drop it wont hindenburg, it will start turning down and when falling it will generate some speed and should catch some wind and you can then downloop or just streer it back up. And if kite is shooting over the windwindow you just steer it back to wind window. Zenith is where the problems occur. Also if your kite is very prone to shoot out of wind window keep the bar sheeted in when you arent moving.


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