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Ride Engine 2018 Harnesses

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POACHER
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Re: Ride Engine 2018 Harnesses

Postby POACHER » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:01 pm

Yeah Cap, it is a great harness no doubt. I like your idea of a beefier freestyle/team build. I'm no Aaron Hadlow by any stretch but I would buy a burlier version if it were offered.
(btw, check out the straps on the Ion Hadlow/Team harness..........it looks like seat belt webbing. :o )

Part of my bias is I believe I got an anomaly/defective one. (which RE took care of!) The smaller tube webbing became frayed after a week. Also the printed Ride Engine graphic peeled off in the same week. The harness fit me great and was comfy but the thing just kind crapped out. Yes I know how to double back the straps to prevent slippage, but mine just didn't want to hold well.

I found the review of Mystic's Majestic X on Real's site by a user named "Coleman" to be interesting.....

Good try
by Coleman on Jun 29, 2017

First off let me say I'm biased, I started Ride Engine and invented the hardshell harness. Having this harness on the market is both annoying because its definitely a copy of my design but its also really cool to see the design entering the mainstream and pushing the sport of kiting forward. I'm gonna try to put my feelings aside and just give this thing an honest review. This is definitely a really good harness, Mystic spent over 2 years figuring out how to copy the Ride Engine harness and it shows. Its comfortable and better than most harnesses on the market. That being said they made a few mistakes.

I think a big one is that the shell's wings flex. They try to play it off as a feature but having the shell flex creates pressure points because the part that is flexing is pushing on the area directly underneath whatever part is flexing. If the wings were rigid like the Ride Engine it would distribute that pressure evenly across that side of the harness. Basically you end up paying for a hard shell but because they didn't make it strong enough where it really counts you don't really get the benefit of a shell harness.

My second critique would be their entry system. I used to ride Mystic before I started ride engine and found that if I modified their clicker bar with a sliding rope it would start releasing unexpectedly. I lost my kite a half dozen times from the harness closure spontaneously opening. My friend I won't name rides for Mystic and said he still has this issue enough that he started using a spreader bar from another brand. Also when its not exploding it seems to get stuck a lot and is generally frustrating when your hands get cold or there is much sand around.

Third the shell isn't curved in the vertical direction so it doesn't lock into the lumbar portion of your back and tends to ride up. On the other hand if your back is too flat for the Ride Engine shells or you like to slide your harness around when you ride toe side this could make the harness a better option than the ride engine.

My fourth comment is more personal than design based. They put the word "patented" all over this harness but what they have patented is the resin they are using in the shell. The design of the shell is a patent that I hold and they are infringing on. There's a million different resins you could use that would get the job done so why would they bother to spend $25k to patent the one they used? The reason is that they wanted to use the word "patented" to imply that they had a patent on the shell. Look at their marketing, they say "patented bionic core frame" not "hardshell harness with patented resin". I think this was a pretty dirty attempt to take credit for something they didn't invent and mislead consumers.

Anyhow I'd give the harness 5 stars but the wings flex so that knocks it down to 4 and then the entry system sucks so that knocks it down to 3. I'd take another star off for the deceptive marketing and infringement but that's not related to the performance of the harness so I'll leave it at 3 stars.



I'd have to dispute a few of those claims in the review. Again I'm aware that harness fit is truly subjective. No two people are built the same. So not sure it's even worth a retort but the Mystic does NOT create pressure points. At least not on me. When properly tightened down it feels very comfortable and doesn't ride up even when sending it on big jumps. Someone did a thread on riding their RE loose. I didn't comment, but I feel like this harness might be a better option for that application as well. The lack of lumber pad makes the harness still feel comfortably even when not totally snugged down. I did this yesterday while riding.
Secondly the claim on Clicker bar 4.0 jamming, not working or exploding open seems a bit of a stretch. Yes Mystic had issues on past variations on the Clicker system, (of which I've used and friends have owned) but this system works as advertised. I'm not sure how you could jam it short of burying it or packing it with sand. The system closes and locks with a definitive click, and opens via two fingers squeezing the latch. I can't envision a scenario accidentally hitting the release mechanism while riding. Oh well, but seems a bit of playing on prior issues associated with the brand.

Nothing against Coleman or RE, (I have ZERO ties to Mystic) but this review seems beneath them. Not necessary. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all........Imitation can breed innovation too and I think that's what Mystic has done. Make a few tweaks to the harnesses or offer a Team build that gives an option for buyers. You did the legwork I believe you're due the credit. Don't be salty because someone knocked off the hardshell concept and hit a few of their own bullseyes with it.

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Re: Ride Engine 2018 Harnesses

Postby marekmk » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:42 pm

I love the harness the way it is now!!!!

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Re: Ride Engine 2018 Harnesses

Postby CaptainArgh » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:19 pm

POACHER wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:01 pm
...Nothing against Coleman or RE, (I have ZERO ties to Mystic) but this review seems beneath them. Not necessary. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all........Imitation can breed innovation too and I think that's what Mystic has done. Make a few tweaks to the harnesses or offer a Team build that gives an option for buyers. You did the legwork I believe you're due the credit. Don't be salty because someone knocked off the hardshell concept and hit a few of their own bullseyes with it.
That is odd that he would take the time to give another harness any attention, but I suppose inventors get pretty bitter when they see their ideas being copied.

There were no harnesses that looked like his before he started making them. He went through generations of custom prototypes that he hand built, and then he went through the time and expense of patenting it (it is not cheap or easy). Now every manufacturer has a low profile lumbar hugging harness just like his. Think about it, most mainstream harnesses were getting bigger with all kinds of memory foam and lumber support, and he went the opposite way.

You're correct, Imitation does drive innovation. I'm sure other companies that copied his concept, have also implemented some other features that are better. Maybe his harnesses will continue to innovate, maybe they'll just become the status quo and the company will focus more on wetsuits and clothing. I'm not sure, but I do like it simple and hope he continues to improve on the design. Guess I shouldn't knock the metal attachments until I try it. Maybe it's better than the old Dakines I'm used to.

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Re: Ride Engine 2018 Harnesses

Postby maffhieu » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:43 am

Thank you POACHER, it was very interesting to me ;)

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Re: Ride Engine 2018 Harnesses

Postby t3rse » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:53 pm

CaptainArgh wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:39 pm
POACHER wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:25 pm
TomW wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:16 pm
I'm happy with the pu tube strap.
...Not baggin' on anyone or RE, but I've said it before - The strap and closure system is what's holding back the RE from being the end all kite harness. I have a Majestic X and I like it, but the RE had a better lumber and softer padding. If RE had the beefier straps and a quality closure I'd go back.
As I've never had any issues with my 2016 RE strap or closure system, I suspect it's fine for 99% of riders. I believe you that there are issues for a certain style of rider, though. They should make a beefed up team version to appeal to the riders pushing it so hard that they overpower the straps. It'd be an easy side-by-side choice to make at purchase.

I can imagine that once you have had a harness open up on you, you'd be hesitant to use it again. Would be an easy problem for a designer to address, which I guess is why they went to the metal to metal connection. (bummer for me, as I love those soft flexible light PU tubes.)
I wrap a soft shackle on it now to keep it from coming loose.

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Re: Ride Engine 2018 Harnesses

Postby jaystore » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:23 am

Hello, I'm the designer of the "sliding hook system" called DYNABAR and tonight I found the POACHER post and the Coleman review on Mystic Majestic X.

I consider it "professionally naive" and "humanly presumptuous" and i decided to write few "facts" about it.
In 2015 we wrote him an email asking not to copy DYNABAR (RE was reselling DYNABAR for the custom rigid harness) and design their own model, but we never received an answer.
One day we found his comment on one of our FB pages and now we understand he is a "serial spammer"
ColemanonFB-small.png
ColemanonFB-small.png (44.76 KiB) Viewed 841 times
Another funny discovery is the slogan we found on RE web site ".... and you'll never go back" who is written on all our flyers and web pages since 2008, "problem solved" we solved before 2008 without cutting customer's CL tubes.
colemanslogan.png
REproblemsolved.png
About patents, some years ago we received an email from a US layer asking us money for a patent "sliding hook system" registered by his customer.
My answer was that a similar system was patented in 1986 for windsurfing harnesses, since then I never heard of them.
When a designer takes "inspiration" from work done by other people and designing a new model of one existing product then it is difficult to get a patent. Before RE rigid back harness, harnesses had semi rigid plates and rigid battens just below the external "nice looking graphics" layer.
Coleman had the idea to go one step forward and "put all together" in one rigid layer of composite material.
Composite material was not new in harness technology but the cost was too high and no brand wanted to follow that direction.
All of us have to admit Coleman started the challenge, but he also under evaluated some details who created some problems to kiters (source of this info are topics taken from this forum).

If Coleman has a patent he should act legally against JAY, Mystic, ION, ProLimit, DaKine and others if they infringed patent's claims.

If I had to write a review on RE harness I would write "Nice looking harness, lumbar lock looks like a marketing slogan, "designed on hundreds, maybe thousands, of body shapes" is difficult to believe but Coleman could explain the technique he used. Breaking loads calculation was poor in the previous design. 2018 product line looks great!".

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Re: Ride Engine 2018 Harnesses

Postby CaptainArgh » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:51 pm

Interesting @jaystore, thanks for your take on this. :thumb: I have to say, I didn't know if he had a patent and it sounds like he doesn't.

I have several friends who have used your Jaybars for several years and really like them. I saw those well before Dakine and other manufacturers started to bring the slider back into production. (before then, most people just made their own with a rope and a shackle)

All name calling aside, I do have to again say that my Ride Engine harness is really nice, more comfortable than previous harnesses I have owned, and if you look at the rest of the market it has clearly influenced other manufacturers. No matter who invented it, Coleman did recognize a need that was not currently met in the market by any other manufacturer.

Hopefully all the manufacturers can get along on this. It seems like they all borrow from each other, and when it is a significant borrow or patent issue they make it right. When the designers/inventors are publicly trolling each other it makes everyone look bad. Social media is much cheaper than a lawyer, though, so I guess that's why we see it.

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Re: Ride Engine 2018 Harnesses

Postby BWD » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:26 pm

The rigid harness idea is no doubt a good one.
Naturally it reminds one of a horse saddle, in the sense the kite is the horse, and the rider is actually the one being ridden. :lol:
Comparatively, soft harnesses are merely blankets with straps on them.
Seems to me rider and horse both would prefer better.
Anyway, when does Ghenghis Khan get his due?
No doubt someone else invented it, but he and his crew did make the most of it, stirrups too....

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Re: Ride Engine 2018 Harnesses

Postby jonysan » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:32 pm

BWD wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:26 pm
The rigid harness idea is no doubt a good one.
Naturally it reminds one of a horse saddle, in the sense the kite is the horse, and the rider is actually the one being ridden.
Comparatively, soft harnesses are merely blankets with straps on them.
Seems to me rider and horse both would prefer better.
Anyway, when does Ghenghis Khan get his due?
No doubt someone else invented it, but he and his crew did make the most of it, stirrups too....
Ghengis and his "crew" excellent !!

Although in your analogy did you mean that "in the sense the kite is the rider" ?

suggest royalties are diverted to the Russian Steppes.

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Re: Ride Engine 2018 Harnesses

Postby lisaped » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:43 pm

Hard Shell harness was invented by a former owner and founder on Mystic at early 90-th. That harness was a windsurfing version. The people whom the Mystic belongs now don't support that and don't understand what the harness is. The outer look is what makes it for them, nothing of sport now...


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