light wind surfboard vs foil board

[bragnouff]

For those who want to cruise shallow water spots in very light wind, try a 9ft or bigger longboard type surfboard or even a sup. Many people already own one but might not think to kite it.
Sure, maneuverability is horrible, but for insane light breeze, its fun and also super easy!
I was stunned by how far upwind I could get in 7kts the first time I tried it.
Blows the “doors” out of the water

A longboard or a sup has a pretty big fin that is likely to come in the way in shallow water spots. As opposed to finless door (a.k.a flaqueboard) that can tap into the near shore ground effect / skim side of things where magic happens. A door has also the advantage that it is probably more fun once you've built up some speed and gained upwind capital, with the odd backloop and slide 360 and stuff...
I'm not using that much anymore nowadays, as I have other options, like buggy, foil, or other grown up stuff to do, but that was a great way to get some fun in conditions no one else could get out.
Blast from the past: http://www.portnawake.com/videos/embedded-kite-lo.mov

[Greenturtle]

[quote=Greenturtle post_id=<a href="tel:1005807">1005807</a> time=<a href="tel:1518460945">1518460945</a> user_id=93976]
For those who want to cruise shallow water spots in very light wind, try a 9ft or bigger longboard type surfboard or even a sup. Many people already own one but might not think to kite it.
Sure, maneuverability is horrible, but for insane light breeze, its fun and also super easy!
I was stunned by how far upwind I could get in 7kts the first time I tried it.
Blows the “doors” out of the water

A longboard or a sup has a pretty big fin that is likely to come in the way in shallow water spots. As opposed to finless door (a.k.a flaqueboard) that can tap into the near shore ground effect / skim side of things where magic happens. A door has also the advantage that it is probably more fun once you've built up some speed and gained upwind capital, with the odd backloop and slide 360 and stuff...
I'm not using that much anymore nowadays, as I have other options, like buggy, foil, or other grown up stuff to do, but that was a great way to get some fun in conditions no one else could get out.
Blast from the past: http://www.portnawake.com/videos/embedded-kite-lo.mov
[/quote]

No doubt door goes shallower, and more maneuverable, But- when you cannot get upwind on the door anymore , the longboard will!

[bragnouff]

No doubt door goes shallower, and more maneuverable, But- when you cannot get upwind on the door anymore , the longboard will!

Maybe, although I'm not really convinced after the few sessions I've had on a longboard. Felt draggy, and sluggish, and not really able to build up speed. But it really depends on the water conditions I guess. Around here, there's usually a conveyor belt right on the beach, that can bring you back upwind if you can tap into that potential, and get the timing right with swell surges.
Anyway, the limiting factor quickly becomes about keeping the kite in the air...

[matth]

The thing about doors is that despite being able to go incredibly early, It's always a door! Glassing along.... on a door. They carve.... like a door. The take off and land.... like a door. They surf like a door. A door is just never great.

that says it all. Thanks for that! I have been using twintips with regular shapes (not door shape) in all sizes (including a 190cm foam board). The door is a door. But what I have found and experimented with is a middle fin (position between your legs about 7cm from the board edge). I started to use a normal 5cm fin (you have to drill 2 wholes into your board) and it was so damned convincing that I had many custom fins made and nowadays I use 7-9cm fins with half circle shape (shape is not so important but the half circle is still much better). My boards have become upwind machines and for light wind it also helpsq quite a bit because you don´t have to (or you should not) edge the board too hard or not at all.. and here I go: I invented a revolutionary thing in kite boarding and still people ride without that middle fin. With 100kg I ride a 21m flysurfer speed3 and a 145x44cm twintip board with my middle fin in winds at about 10 knots and not even that: I am even having fun. It is true if you really want to get into foil boards with all their disadvantages: they are going amazingly early and with smaller kites. It´s not worth it for me.

Any photos? I was thinking of adding a center fin to my Shinn King GEE

[lexflex]

I'm curious , why more work wasn't done , for that idea ; does it
screw-Up the handling a bunch , (in light wind) ?

Bille

I have not ridden the extendable huge fin myself but I spoke to some people who did. Nobody was really crazy about it. The fun must be limited. The problem with middle fins is: going downwind. I have a 25cm non-extendable race fin and going downwind is a pain in the ass. If you keep the size below 10cm with the right shape the fin will not be in your way at all except for certain tricks which I do not do. 7-9cm middle fin is a good compromise. With the middle fin you will not have to edge the board that much and that keeps the board flat (flatter) on the water giving it more surface/a bigger area that remains on the water. The middle fin actually improves your position. This is a big side effect. If it is not cool for you to have 5 fins on your twintip then you can take off all the other fins or 2 of the fins. With 94kg, my 21m flysurfer speed3, 145x44 twintip board with 10cm middle fin I can go in such low winds. I doubt that I could win much more with another board except with a foil board. But foiling is again carrying gear like in wind surfing and jumping with foils is another problem..

[lexflex]

[/quote]


Any photos? I was thinking of adding a center fin to my Shinn King GEE
[/quote]

ok. I will post some photos.. I tried that fin on every old board I have/had and it improves everything! Can you sell your old boards with that middle fin (after you drilled the 2 wholes which is super easy). Yes! I was amazed how fast I sold them!! People want to try it. Just make sure in case you have wood in the board where the wholes go that you seal it off. It´s better not to drill through wood (wood core) because of the moisture/water.. but maybe it does not even matter. I doubt that the water will get very far as long as you don´t leave the whole board under water overnight..

[matth]

Any photos? I was thinking of adding a center fin to my Shinn King GEE
[/quote]

ok. I will post some photos.. I tried that fin on every old board I have/had and it improves everything! Can you sell your old boards with that middle fin (after you drilled the 2 wholes which is super easy). Yes! I was amazed how fast I sold them!! People want to try it. Just make sure in case you have wood in the board where the wholes go that you seal it off. It´s better not to drill through wood (wood core) because of the moisture/water.. but maybe it does not even matter. I doubt that the water will get very far as long as you don´t leave the whole board under water overnight..
[/quote]


There are currently two stock boards on the market that I know of that have a small center stance fin like you are describing.

Flydoor XL, and the Naish orbit.

[lexflex]

thanks for that. I did not know that Naish had a board with that middle fin. I know the flydoor and I also bought and tested that middle fin from the flydoor (original, directly from flysurfer) which is actually quite good but became too small for me but that fin was good fun. I will also post a photo of that fin as a comparision..

[kiterocky]

The fix middle is very bad when wind pick up or downwind... removable 35 or 25 its amazing ..time to try..in light wind u can feel the difference start around 20cm fin its a kind of foil upwind improve..[attachment=1]FB_IMG_1518508837588.jpg[/attachment][attachment=0]FB_IMG_1518508825544.jpg[/attachment]

[joriws]

No doubt door goes shallower, and more maneuverable, But- when you cannot get upwind on the door anymore , the longboard will!

Flydoor XL with Flyboard stock 8cm center-fin. I am still waiting someone to beat me and sure locals have tried. And I run my door when LW Lei's do not properly fly so LEI&longboard would not work. Core XR 19m are on the beach and so does Airush zero 19m or going downwind. No comparison and I've learned that if there is enough wind to plane I can go upwind on my door. And I am the heaviest guy on beach and the last one coming in.

About the aerial tricks - in the end Flydoor XL is 10cm longer than my Nobile 164cm snowkite board. So roughly the same size and weight (angular momentum). On snowboard you can do the tricks, so can with Door if your speed / powerlevel are ok.

I know Flyboards Flyrace-twintip would be more efficient on riding/upwind with adjustable 40cm center-fin. But those are not available on market anymore and require deeper water.

Here I am testing Spleene's Monster Door.. In shallow water with underwater dunes where HF or big fins are a con.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CxSGhN4iPc

Or my own Flydoor when I was first time demoing Sonic-FR on same location as Spleene-test.. Jumping upwind (jump and landing upwind position from take-off), handplant and backroll transitions etc. It just proves that you can do more than lawn moving at light wind and on door.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqmfux98MHI