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light wind surfboard vs foil board

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Matteo V
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Re: light wind surfboard vs foil board

Postby Matteo V » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:38 am

Slappysan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:33 pm
Like I said you just gotta get out there on a decent volume board and give it a try. Just sit stationary and float on the board using the kite to support as much weight as needed. It's not even that hard, especially if you are decent at balancing on a low volume SUP.
I do this on the kite fish, in medium to high winds. Light winds - this is not something I try to do when the winds are 12knots or less. Rather I make every effort to avoid stopping in light winds. Speed, and speed through the trainsition is key to having a good time in light winds.

So are you talking in medium (15knts) or high winds (20+knots)?

Again, I love to see how slow I can go, or even stop on the Kitefish, with the kite just above me moving quickly back and forth in medium or high winds.

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Slappysan
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Re: light wind surfboard vs foil board

Postby Slappysan » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:28 pm

phpBB [video]

This was with my 32L 6 lbs surfboard and 12m kite in winds from 12-16 knots.

Matteo V
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Re: light wind surfboard vs foil board

Postby Matteo V » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:10 pm

Slappysan wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:28 pm
This was with my 32L 6 lbs surfboard and 12m kite in winds from 12-16 knots.
Yes, I have done this too. But there is no need. If you have enough power in the kite to move forward, you do not need to worry about sinking. If the winds goes to 1-2knots and you stop, your sink rate is way too high on anything less than 50% of your displacement to allow you even a second or two to come across a gust in the kite. But the biggest problem with the vid is that there is no long term example shown of standing there for a long period of time. Again, I have done this for fun for 30-40 seconds in medium winds. But I could have been moving much faster and not fallen off when a lull comes by. This technique absolutely negates any benefit from apparent wind, or rider momentum - if you stop on purpose. But I will get a 40l board that I am fixing for a friend this summer and give it a shot in 6knots of wind this spring - sounds like a good challenge - and maybe I could even be convinced that it may be usefull.

Can you get a video of this being useful in winds that you could not plane in?

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Slappysan
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Re: light wind surfboard vs foil board

Postby Slappysan » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:42 am

Matteo V wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:10 pm
Can you get a video of this being useful in winds that you could not plane in?
It's still useful in short spurts because what you can plane in is different on the down stroke vs. the up stroke of your kite. This allows you to plane for a bit on the down-stroke and then come off the kite and lean on the board's buoyance to let it make it's up-stroke in really light winds. In really light winds if you don't come off the kite during the up-stroke it will backstall.

As for doing it for extended periods it's easily doable, especially with both hands to fly the kite. Sometimes I'll be slogging like that for 10-15 minutes waiting for the wind to freshen. It's not fun, but it beats swimming and allows you to minimize your downwind drift during those 10-15 minutes until the wind picks up again.

Matteo V
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Re: light wind surfboard vs foil board

Postby Matteo V » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:48 am

Slappysan wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:42 am

...It's still useful in short spurts because what you can plane in is different on the down stroke vs. the up stroke of your kite.....
Could be a difference in how I work the kite compared to you. I loop to build speed/momentum, then do not come off of plane as apparent wind keeps power in the kite.

Most other kiters consider me skilled in light winds as I use smaller kites at 100kg than almost all other kiters weighing in at only 75kg. In the past, I would ride a 5.5m Kahoona while other lighter riders were on 11m kites. This year, I have tried to go a bit bigger as the smaller kites in light wind were giving me some elbow problems from working them. The last day on the coast this year I rode my biggest current tube kite - a 13.5 Kahoona in light winds on the ocean with other riders on 17 to 19m inflatables. This could lead to me skipping over what you or others are experiencing by me having a necessity to keep my speed up to make up for a smaller kite at a heavier weight.
Slappysan wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:42 am
....This allows you to plane for a bit on the down-stroke and then come off the kite and lean on the board's buoyance to let it make it's up-stroke in really light winds.....
I would say therein lies the problem with going from planing forces (water falling off the top and back of the board) to displacement forces (water submerging the board and a portion of the feet). Resistance to forward movement is at it's peak when transitioning from displacement to planing. So you would lose out on a significantly larger portion of a kites downstroke, upstroke, or loop by constantly returning to displacement mode. If you just keep your speed up via turning downwind for a few meters, you could save this energy and maintain forward momentum.

Again, I do not think I am ever allowing myself to get to this stage. I just try to go fast. Thus I really need to try this back to back with a buoyant board. This gives me a reason to build a plywood kitefish, and a 4" thick one.


Slappysan wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:42 am
.....In really light winds if you don't come off the kite during the up-stroke it will backstall.....
I am pretty sensitive to backstall having grown up on foil kites. But I love backstall. My flying style departs from most other kiters with respect to how I use the backstall to place the kite in the window for maximum power, then sheet out to hook up airflow over the top of the kite at the most powerfull point in the window. If you watch me in light winds on water or the snow, you will see me stall the kite out all the time while using my momentum to over run it, then power it up again. Many kiters, not familiar with the positive attributes of backstall, are that way because they have little foilkite experience.

Honestly, writing this is making me think I am using backstall/rider speed in the same manner that you are attempting to use buoyancy. I still think that resistance of the board in the water at displacement is the biggest energy "black hole" you can get, especially when coupled with the loss of apparent wind.

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Re: light wind surfboard VS foil board

Postby PullStrings » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:38 am

jumptheshark wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:07 pm
Starsky rolls in his grave :roll:
Did you dig your own grave ?


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