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Kite companies - please stop the wakestyle hype!

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KimAndersen
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Re: Kite companies - please stop the wakestyle hype!!!

Postby KimAndersen » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:58 am

downunder wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:18 am
POACHER wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:30 pm
we wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:07 pm
I second this. I want to see more "mowing the lawn". That's my favorite style. Or better yet, underpowered sloggy mowing the lawn, that what I do best. Kind of like pushing the lawn tractor when it's broke down.
YES! Survival Sailing is my jam!
Seriously.........the shitty conditions we have, I am a fist pumpin' fool just to make it back to the beach some days.


On this whole thread:
Why do people care what others do? I sure don't give a shit.

Hm,

I'll repeat what I wrote before:

You would give a s.ite if wakestylers slam kites on someones head. All the time. We talking unhooked moves in the landing zone. This is where the most flat water is, and no, no one else slams the kite there with hooked moves.

I've been in a nasty situations too many times, ie:

- unhooked move, slams the kite in front of me. I am now between his lines, and the guy is having trouble with his boots in shallows. My kite crashed now and powering up, I can't even see it and control. After good 10 mins (felt like it), I say to the guy that I'll cut his lines to free myself. I am now in 10cm of water, not seeing my kite which is on the beach, powered. The guy threatened me that he will cut my head off, obviously not local.
I am so powered, my lines under his kite and me struggling with my kite, did not notice his line sliced my ankle. Finally, I managed to go under his fully powered kite and free myself.


Like it is OUR fault if you, wakestylers, crash your bloody kite on top of us.

This is a disaster waiting to happen. One powered kite on someones neck, and than what? It is you, wakestlers, to think of the consequences.

Face it, do you or do you not slam the kite more often with unhooked moves? If you personally don't, how many others do?

Do you think that it is fair what THEY DO to the other riders?
Hmm

This probably differs a lot from spot to spot around the world, but I doubt you can make generalisation like that.

At my local spots it's certainly not people who unhook that you fear, the kiters at that level usually have a very developed feel for how much space they need, and at the same time they seldomly fuckup completely usually they stay in control even if they crash.

Around here the scary people are the ones who have moved past the beginner stage and started doing sent jumps. At this stage a lot of them can go fairly big, but they have not yet developed a feel for how much room they need, especially when they loose a bit of their edge at takeoff and shoot downwind. At the same time they have not yet developed good enough kite control and as result they end up with slack lines during their jump and therefore loose all control of the kite.

Hats of to kiters who start doing big sent jumps and taking the crashed that follow, we have all been there, and progression most often involve a lot of crashes. But most importantly try not to involve other kites when you crash, this goes for both hooked and unhooked moves.

As I said above this may very well differ from spot to spot, and as I stated before in this tread we really need to stop making general assumptions from what we experience locally.

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downunder
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Re: Kite companies - please stop the wakestyle hype!!!

Postby downunder » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:15 am

^
Ok, so you did not answer, "do you or do you not slam the kite more often with unhooked moves?"


Nope, the ws is commonly done on flat water, not staying in control 99% of time when they crash. Worse, the kite is what? Released. How do you control released kite is magic.

Why? Why do you think that we should stop gen....locally? The above is a fact, when you do unhooked move and crash, the kite is not controllable. When hooked, crash, kite stays unreleased, there is a chance to recover the kite.
Valid globally.

KimAndersen
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Re: Kite companies - please stop the wakestyle hype!!!

Postby KimAndersen » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:36 am

downunder wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:15 am
^
Ok, so you did not answer, "do you or do you not slam the kite more often with unhooked moves?"


Nope, the ws is commonly done on flat water, not staying in control 99% of time. Worse, the kite is what? Released. How do you control released kite is magic.

Why? Why do you think that we should stop gen....locally? The above is a fact, when you do unhooked move and crash, the kite is not controllable. When hooked, crash, kite stays unreleased, there is a chance to recover the kite.
Valid globally.
Hmm thats very hard question to answer with a yes or no. First of all when you say "do you or do you", are you refering to me personally or kiters in general, because I cant speek for kiters in general nor do I have the data to verify whatever assumptions I may have?

Personally I do crash my kite more unhooked, as I very rarely crash my kite hooked anymore. Have I previously crashed my kite hooked, oh yes big time especially when i started jumping later learning hooked frontrolls a lot of crashes again, then came the stage where I tried to do tricks that involved a kiteloop a lot of crashes again.

The thing is now I know pretty much how much space is needed to not endanger other people, at the same time my crashes unhooked usually doesn' t mean I tavel nearly as far downwind as I do doing hooked jumps or tricks with loops (Guess I just don't go big enough unhooked :wink: ). And when I crash unhooked I usually just let go of the bar and pull it in by the leash before it hits the water.

Hope this answers your question, my point with my previous post was not to prove that unhooked involved more or less crashing, my point is watch out making general assumptions from what we experience personally or locally.

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Re: Kite companies - please stop the wakestyle hype!!!

Postby zloilyoha » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:46 am

hey! TS! if you cannot understand what`s really going during the wakestyle, try these videos - it`s full of slowmo for better vision :cool2:




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Re: Kite companies - please stop the wakestyle hype!!!

Postby downunder » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:57 am

KimAndersen wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:36 am
downunder wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:15 am
^
Ok, so you did not answer, "do you or do you not slam the kite more often with unhooked moves?"


Nope, the ws is commonly done on flat water, not staying in control 99% of time. Worse, the kite is what? Released. How do you control released kite is magic.

Why? Why do you think that we should stop gen....locally? The above is a fact, when you do unhooked move and crash, the kite is not controllable. When hooked, crash, kite stays unreleased, there is a chance to recover the kite.
Valid globally.
Hmm thats very hard question to answer with a yes or no. First of all when you say "do you or do you", are you refering to me personally or kiters in general, because I cant speek for kiters in general nor do I have the data to verify whatever assumptions I may have?

Personally I do crash my kite more unhooked, as I very rarely crash my kite hooked anymore. Have I previously crashed my kite hooked, oh yes big time especially when i started jumping later learning hooked frontrolls a lot of crashes again, then came the stage where I tried to do tricks that involved a kiteloop a lot of crashes again.
.
.
Thanks for answering. This is all I wanted to read. In general, the unhooked moves crash more often.

Combined with ignorant crooks it is a recept for disaster...I'm not saying that is you Kim tho.

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Re: Kite companies - please stop the wakestyle hype!!!

Postby KimAndersen » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:43 am

downunder wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:57 am
KimAndersen wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:36 am
downunder wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:15 am
^
Ok, so you did not answer, "do you or do you not slam the kite more often with unhooked moves?"


Nope, the ws is commonly done on flat water, not staying in control 99% of time. Worse, the kite is what? Released. How do you control released kite is magic.

Why? Why do you think that we should stop gen....locally? The above is a fact, when you do unhooked move and crash, the kite is not controllable. When hooked, crash, kite stays unreleased, there is a chance to recover the kite.
Valid globally.
Hmm thats very hard question to answer with a yes or no. First of all when you say "do you or do you", are you refering to me personally or kiters in general, because I cant speek for kiters in general nor do I have the data to verify whatever assumptions I may have?

Personally I do crash my kite more unhooked, as I very rarely crash my kite hooked anymore. Have I previously crashed my kite hooked, oh yes big time especially when i started jumping later learning hooked frontrolls a lot of crashes again, then came the stage where I tried to do tricks that involved a kiteloop a lot of crashes again.
.
.
Thanks for answering. This is all I wanted to read. In general, the unhooked moves crash more often.

Combined with ignorant crooks it is a recept for disaster...I'm not saying that is you Kim tho.
Just so we are clear I did not say that unhooked moves crash more often, I said I personally crash more unhooked moves at the stage I am at right now. But in the past past I have probably crashed just as many moves hooked. I have never counted or journalized my crashes, so can't say with certainty.

Next I stated that my unhooked crashes are no way near as dangerous for other people as my previous hooked crashes.

Personally I do try,to not put myself in situations where I am likely to hurt other people, and I think most other kiters do that too at least thats my local impression.

Here locally it does seem like most people who have reached a level where they do unhooked moves are much more aware of the dangers they can course to others, and how to avoid it. But that has more to do with the fact, that they are more experienced and have better control, so the same applies for more advanced kiters doing hooked moves.

Ignorant crooks are in general a recept for disaster, but that applies everywhere, and not just in kiting whether hooked or unhooked.

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Re: Kite companies - please stop the wakestyle hype!!!

Postby KimAndersen » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:19 pm

downunder wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:15 am
^
Ok, so you did not answer, "do you or do you not slam the kite more often with unhooked moves?"


Nope, the ws is commonly done on flat water, not staying in control 99% of time when they crash. Worse, the kite is what? Released. How do you control released kite is magic.

Why? Why do you think that we should stop gen....locally? The above is a fact, when you do unhooked move and crash, the kite is not controllable. When hooked, crash, kite stays unreleased, there is a chance to recover the kite.
Valid globally.
Just saw you wrote af few more points that I am not sure I addressed.

First I don't see how you came to the conclussion that unhooked moves is done more or less in flat water than hooked moves? Flat water spots have many kiters doing hooked moves as well, and a lot of kiters do both hooked and unhooked moves. At the same time a lot of kiters do unhooked moves of wave kickers.

Next you say "not staying in control 99% of time when they crash", again is this specific kiters at your local spots? Because here I would say kiters who do unhooked moves stay in control in most of the crashes. This is because when you start unhooking, you quickly learn that a kite moving around the window is not disirable, so you learn to keep your hands centered and to let go of the bar in time. At the same time when you start to unhook, you also learn to rig your leash either suicide or now a days semi-suicide. The result being that there is no steering of the kite, it just stays put, and when you do let go of the bar it just hangs there drifting on the leash until you pull it back in without hitting the water.

The same cannot be said for a hooked jump where you pendulum under the kite and end up in front of the kite with completely slacked lines. I don't know if you have tried this yet, but trust me, it is seriously scary for both yourself and everyone around you, because there is absolutely no control of anything.

So you when you say:

"Why? Why do you think that we should stop gen....locally? The above is a fact, when you do unhooked move and crash, the kite is not controllable. When hooked, crash, kite stays unreleased, there is a chance to recover the kite."

This is not factual at all, and this is exactly why we should stop generalizing.

My discription above may not apply to your local spot, there might be idiots unhooking their kites with absolute no control and crashing them on you all the time, I would have no idea. But please watch out stating that something is a fact and saying that this is the case 99% of the time. My local experiences might be the last percentage, but I highly doubt it.

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Re: Kite companies - please stop the wakestyle hype!!!

Postby Matteo V » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:34 pm

downunder wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:18 am

Do you think that it is fair what THEY (wakestyler's) DO to the other riders?
On an individual basis, no, it is not fair - at least not if they are repeat offenders abusing kiting privileges and behaving irresponsibly in an area.

As a group? I don't judge all wakestylers by the actions of one tool. Guaranteed you have some "tools" in your particular discipline of kiteboarding. I bet you have even been one, though most likely you would claim it was unintentional, at some point in your kiteboarding career.


Is wakestyle higher risk? Yes?
Should you ban wakesytle because it is slightly higher risk at your local launch? That is up to you and other local kiters?

Just remember that what goes around comes around.


I suggest singling out individuals, who are irresponsible kiters, for sanctions. Not an entire group.
Last edited by Matteo V on Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kite companies - please stop the wakestyle hype!!!

Postby alexeyga » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:47 pm

zloilyoha wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:46 am
hey! TS! if you cannot understand what`s really going during the wakestyle, try these videos - it`s full of slowmo for better vision :cool2:
Same old:

-a pop

-some variation of
485710ba35398e72fe78cdd296b87e00.jpg
485710ba35398e72fe78cdd296b87e00.jpg (11.14 KiB) Viewed 312 times
- and a knees-shattering landing

Just slower. What is there to understand?

Can't help admiring the level of athleticism required and these gorgeous knee braces.

If you don't mind me asking, did you get into wakestyle because you actually liked what you saw to the point of "fu@k yeah! I want to do this!!!", or you've only started doing it because the herd was running in that direction???? (типа - ведь чоткие пацаны анхукятся и перехватывают - тоже хочу быть чотким.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumb: )

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Re: Kite companies - please stop the wakestyle hype!!!

Postby jeromeL » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:04 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:34 pm
downunder wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:18 am

Do you think that it is fair what THEY (wakestyler's) DO to the other riders?
On an individual basis, no, it is not fair - at least not if they are repeat offenders abusing kiting privileges and behaving irresponsibly in an area.

As a group? I don't judge all wakestylers by the actions of one tool. Guaranteed you have some "tools" in your particular discipline of kiteboarding. I bet you have even been one, though most likely you would claim it was unintentional, at some point in your kiteboarding career.


Is wakestyle higher risk? Yes?
Should you ban wakesytle because it is slightly higher risk at your local launch? That is up to you and other local kiters?

Just remember that what goes around comes around.


I suggest singling out individuals, who are irresponsible kiters, for sanctions. Not an entire group.
I have definitely been a tool and will probably be one again some time.

I am beginner unhooking and you have to leave a lot more room crosswind that for boosting and kiteloop. Problem is when unhooking you do your trick sideways at moderate to high speed, takes a while to unhook and pop, then when barely stomping the landing it can take a while to head back downwind/crosswind to rehook, so you end up covering a hundred meters/yards easily going cross wind. It's less a problem who is straight downwind of you more anticipate cross wind room. I don't have many people at my local spot so usuallly I do them at one end of the spot or if everyone else is on other tack.
As far as kite crashing and such, usually kite is just sitting at 45 degree after a wipeout. I would leave some room behind and donwwind as you can send kite to 12 or other side of window as you rotate by mistake depending on hand position. I don't really find kite crash more than for other discipline, unless you are lawn mowing maybe ;)

I don't think it's more dangerous for other kiter than learning backroll kiteloop and such, just need to look further ahead cross wind. Even on backroll hand drag or darkslide I am often surprised how far back the kite can go, when I have someone upwind of me behind I feel like I am clear to do those but it can really surprise you until you know better...


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