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Recommendations for a kite

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hgrimberg
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Re: Recommendations for a kite

Postby hgrimberg » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:19 pm

jeromeL wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:31 pm
If you are surfing on windsurfer then I guess you will still do it! ;)

Do you want to use surfboard with a kite in 12 to 15 knots? If wind is steady on surfboard and 12 knots no need to pump kite.
for surfing I wouldn't really go bigger than 12, you want a kite that turns fast and don't want to get pulled of the wave when wind pick up.
On surfboard you don't want too big of a kite, smaller are faster making it more nimble for wave also you want to surf the wave without help of kite.
Considering you want to surf and such I would try to meet up with people at your local spot because kite size depends on local conditions...

I wouldn't worry about kite being too big and dangerous but depends what gusty you are talking about,12 to 14 isnt huge, with a bit of skill you can hold 14 in 20 knots no problem.
I got caught once on 12m went up from 15 to 45 that was very dangerous...
I don't know why you say I won't be able to use it if it is 12 kts with a bi-directional if on the North website says it is ok for when the wind is between 11-15 kts with a bi-directional and with a weight of 76-80 kg. Also, North says that you should choose 1 or 2 sized less on a Neo that you would choose on any other model because it is a very powerful kite. Don't you believe in all this? I suppose pumping is for less than 11 kts, right?

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jeromeL
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Re: Recommendations for a kite

Postby jeromeL » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:51 pm

hgrimberg wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:19 pm
jeromeL wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:31 pm
If you are surfing on windsurfer then I guess you will still do it! ;)

Do you want to use surfboard with a kite in 12 to 15 knots? If wind is steady on surfboard and 12 knots no need to pump kite.
for surfing I wouldn't really go bigger than 12, you want a kite that turns fast and don't want to get pulled of the wave when wind pick up.
On surfboard you don't want too big of a kite, smaller are faster making it more nimble for wave also you want to surf the wave without help of kite.
Considering you want to surf and such I would try to meet up with people at your local spot because kite size depends on local conditions...

I wouldn't worry about kite being too big and dangerous but depends what gusty you are talking about,12 to 14 isnt huge, with a bit of skill you can hold 14 in 20 knots no problem.
I got caught once on 12m went up from 15 to 45 that was very dangerous...
I don't know why you say I won't be able to use it if it is 12 kts with a bi-directional if on the North website says it is ok for when the wind is between 11-15 kts with a bi-directional and with a weight of 76-80 kg. Also, North says that you should choose 1 or 2 sized less on a Neo that you would choose on any other model because it is a very powerful kite. Don't you believe in all this? I suppose pumping is for less than 11 kts, right?
11 is limit for any kite, even 18m won't help to go down to 10 knots unless you have specific board. In 11 knots a bigger kite allow you to do more with but a 12m almost has same absolute low end...

So sure if wind is steady at 11 knots water not choppy you can ride your twintip. It's pretty technical to kite in
11 knots, you will definitely need to work kite at times and legs to get the most out of it since wind is rarely steady and water rarely perfectly flat...

On low end the type or board you ride is as important as kite. You are a beginner so I suggest you get a second hand kite and maybe you will have a better idea what is a good fit for what you want to do and what fits your local condition.

hgrimberg
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Re: Recommendations for a kite

Postby hgrimberg » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:17 pm

jeromeL wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:51 pm
hgrimberg wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:19 pm
jeromeL wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:31 pm
If you are surfing on windsurfer then I guess you will still do it! ;)

Do you want to use surfboard with a kite in 12 to 15 knots? If wind is steady on surfboard and 12 knots no need to pump kite.
for surfing I wouldn't really go bigger than 12, you want a kite that turns fast and don't want to get pulled of the wave when wind pick up.
On surfboard you don't want too big of a kite, smaller are faster making it more nimble for wave also you want to surf the wave without help of kite.
Considering you want to surf and such I would try to meet up with people at your local spot because kite size depends on local conditions...

I wouldn't worry about kite being too big and dangerous but depends what gusty you are talking about,12 to 14 isnt huge, with a bit of skill you can hold 14 in 20 knots no problem.
I got caught once on 12m went up from 15 to 45 that was very dangerous...
I don't know why you say I won't be able to use it if it is 12 kts with a bi-directional if on the North website says it is ok for when the wind is between 11-15 kts with a bi-directional and with a weight of 76-80 kg. Also, North says that you should choose 1 or 2 sized less on a Neo that you would choose on any other model because it is a very powerful kite. Don't you believe in all this? I suppose pumping is for less than 11 kts, right?
11 is limit for any kite, even 18m won't help to go down to 10 knots unless you have specific board. In 11 knots a bigger kite allow you to do more with but a 12m almost has same absolute low end...

So sure if wind is steady at 11 knots water not choppy you can ride your twintip. It's pretty technical to kite in
11 knots, you will definitely need to work kite at times and legs to get the most out of it since wind is rarely steady and water rarely perfectly flat...

On low end the type or board you ride is as important as kite. You are a beginner so I suggest you get a second hand kite and maybe you will have a better idea what is a good fit for what you want to do and what fits your local condition.
Yesterday, at my local spot, wind was 9 kts and people were kiting with 15 m North Juice using TT's, and they were planning... Maybe they were pumping the kite a lot but nobody was using a 12. Maybe, since this is a river and the current was against the wind, then that was helping too. In any case, if a 15 m lightwind kite is ok for 9 kts, I am not so sure how as a beginner I will be able to handle 13 -14 kts on such a huge kite like a 15. The range of the North Juice 15 says it goes from 9 kts to 17 kts, whereas the Neo 12 goes just from 11 to 15 kts. In any case, is such a huge kite too dangerous for a biginner in 13-14 kts and also is it more complicated for relaunching it if it falls on the water?

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Re: Recommendations for a kite

Postby jeromeL » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:39 pm

hgrimberg wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:17 pm
Yesterday, at my local spot, wind was 9 kts and people were kiting with 15 m North Juice using TT's, and they were planning... Maybe they were pumping the kite a lot but nobody was using a 12. Maybe, since this is a river and the current was against the wind, then that was helping too. In any case, if a 15 m lightwind kite is ok for 9 kts, I am not so sure how as a beginner I will be able to handle 13 -14 kts on such a huge kite like a 15. The range of the North Juice 15 says it goes from 9 kts to 17 kts, whereas the Neo 12 goes just from 11 to 15 kts. In any case, is such a huge kite too dangerous for a biginner in 13-14 kts and also is it more complicated for relaunching it if it falls on the water?
that's impressive, I guess the river could give a bit of a boost ;)
The Juice is lightwind specific, I haven't tried that one but for light wind kite they usually make the construction a bit ligher, so the 15m Juice is probably lighter than the Neo 12. Being lighter, it's less likely to fall out of the sky also it will be easier to sign the kite around to get power out of it on its low end

Juice should be easier to relaunch being light wind specific so it's a bit lighter than other kite, depends on shape of leading edge but in less than 11 knots it gets harder to relaunch any kite, there are some technique tricks you can use to help in those situations but very quickly you learn to no crash the kite, especially when cruising along in 10 knots. If kite is light enough it will stay in the sky... Unless you make a Jybe and crash downwind taking over your kite...

About the high end in 15 knots, I haven't tried that one but some light wind kite at 17m are designed for low end and in their high end they would start to pull like a truck, which isn't a great feeling. I don't think they will be "dangerous" unless wind is above 25 knots, but probably don't want to kite in more than 20 knots in those...

One con's of lightwind specific kite is that they are built lighter so they are going to be less durable than heavier kite...

Sorry but it's hard to give you a definitive answer on what you should get. It really depends on local condition and what you want to do. for example for my local condition, I wouldn't get a 15m lightwind kite just because when wind is 10 knots it's usually moving from 7-14 which wouldn't work. Some people like to boost so they would get 18m when I am on 12m in 12m to 14 knots. I find doing other type of tricks more fun than boosting around in 18m..
So you see that it really depends on local condition and what you want to do with your kite. Best advise is to get a cheap used kite and as you get better you will get to try some kites and have a better idea what you want...
Given you are interested in low end you haven't considered doing some hydrofoil, would be great for 9-15 knots could get away with only a 10 or 12 m kite. I have heard of someone trying to learn hydrofoil right away with a kite but probably better learning on a twintip or surfboard first ;)

hgrimberg
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Re: Recommendations for a kite

Postby hgrimberg » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:56 pm

jeromeL wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:39 pm
hgrimberg wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:17 pm
Yesterday, at my local spot, wind was 9 kts and people were kiting with 15 m North Juice using TT's, and they were planning... Maybe they were pumping the kite a lot but nobody was using a 12. Maybe, since this is a river and the current was against the wind, then that was helping too. In any case, if a 15 m lightwind kite is ok for 9 kts, I am not so sure how as a beginner I will be able to handle 13 -14 kts on such a huge kite like a 15. The range of the North Juice 15 says it goes from 9 kts to 17 kts, whereas the Neo 12 goes just from 11 to 15 kts. In any case, is such a huge kite too dangerous for a biginner in 13-14 kts and also is it more complicated for relaunching it if it falls on the water?
that's impressive, I guess the river could give a bit of a boost ;)
The Juice is lightwind specific, I haven't tried that one but for light wind kite they usually make the construction a bit ligher, so the 15m Juice is probably lighter than the Neo 12. Being lighter, it's less likely to fall out of the sky also it will be easier to sign the kite around to get power out of it on its low end

Juice should be easier to relaunch being light wind specific so it's a bit lighter than other kite, depends on shape of leading edge but in less than 11 knots it gets harder to relaunch any kite, there are some technique tricks you can use to help in those situations but very quickly you learn to no crash the kite, especially when cruising along in 10 knots. If kite is light enough it will stay in the sky... Unless you make a Jybe and crash downwind taking over your kite...

About the high end in 15 knots, I haven't tried that one but some light wind kite at 17m are designed for low end and in their high end they would start to pull like a truck, which isn't a great feeling. I don't think they will be "dangerous" unless wind is above 25 knots, but probably don't want to kite in more than 20 knots in those...

One con's of lightwind specific kite is that they are built lighter so they are going to be less durable than heavier kite...

Sorry but it's hard to give you a definitive answer on what you should get. It really depends on local condition and what you want to do. for example for my local condition, I wouldn't get a 15m lightwind kite just because when wind is 10 knots it's usually moving from 7-14 which wouldn't work. Some people like to boost so they would get 18m when I am on 12m in 12m to 14 knots. I find doing other type of tricks more fun than boosting around in 18m..
So you see that it really depends on local condition and what you want to do with your kite. Best advise is to get a cheap used kite and as you get better you will get to try some kites and have a better idea what you want...
Given you are interested in low end you haven't considered doing some hydrofoil, would be great for 9-15 knots could get away with only a 10 or 12 m kite. I have heard of someone trying to learn hydrofoil right away with a kite but probably better learning on a twintip or surfboard first ;)
Well, I already purchased a new Neo 12 but I still didn't use it and I still have the possibility to change it for a Juice 15. Since I still have to learn how to kite and all I can do for now is to at the most go 100 yards and then everything explodes :-) kite crashes in the water, or sometimes over a windsurfer or another kiter and I fly in a very violent way. That is all I can do for now and I even cannot go with my right leg on the front because I am a regular and still cannot handle going as a goofy. So, if you say that a lightwind kite has no strong construction, will it handle all the crashes? And I still don't know how to relaunch, so will it be possible for me to relaunch a 15 or it will be much easier with a 12?
Apart from that, are you saying that usually wind is a lot more gusty in the range of the 9 kts than around 13 kts?
Thank you,

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Re: Recommendations for a kite

Postby PullStrings » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:34 am

You are a windsurfer...so use a surfboard made for kiting like a North Nugget...15 Juice...put straps on...and ride like you are used to
Jibe....switch your feet like you are used to....ride heelside like you are used to...as a bonus when you kitesurf you don't always need to switch your feet...enjoy going toeside !!
Say no to twin tip

Neo 12 sqm wind range 11-22 knots...which basically mean that the ideal wind speed sweet spot is half way at 16.5 knots...much more than what you want to kite in
Juice 15 sqm wind range 9-17 knots...which basically mean that the ideal wind speed sweet spot is half way at 13.0 knots...exactly what you want to kite in
Last edited by PullStrings on Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jeromeL
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Re: Recommendations for a kite

Postby jeromeL » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:19 am

Well, I already purchased a new Neo 12 but I still didn't use it and I still have the possibility to change it for a Juice 15. Since I still have to learn how to kite and all I can do for now is to at the most go 100 yards and then everything explodes :-) kite crashes in the water, or sometimes over a windsurfer or another kiter and I fly in a very violent way. That is all I can do for now and I even cannot go with my right leg on the front because I am a regular and still cannot handle going as a goofy. So, if you say that a lightwind kite has no strong construction, will it handle all the crashes? And I still don't know how to relaunch, so will it be possible for me to relaunch a 15 or it will be much easier with a 12?
Apart from that, are you saying that usually wind is a lot more gusty in the range of the 9 kts than around 13 kts?
Thank you,
Yes light wind kite are likely to break faster. Though it's always recommended that a beginner use a used one. I can or trashed my first kite.
It s easier to relaunch in 12-14 knots, being lighter kite it might be slightly easier to relaunch, some kite you can "back launch" in light wind, depends on shape of kite.
I was just saying where I live wind is usually gusty with a range of 10 knots, so on lull kite will fall out of sky... does not mean in your area it's not better.
If you already got a kite i would keep it. Looks like you enjoy surfing, down the line get a surfboard it will even easier to kite in 9-10 knots!
Anyway I can't tell you get one over the other, and asking here you will get opposite point of view, its personal choice everything has pros and cons, there is no perfect kite you give something away to get something...

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Re: Recommendations for a kite

Postby hgrimberg » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:13 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:34 am
You are a windsurfer...so use a surfboard made for kiting like a North Nugget...15 Juice...put straps on...and ride like you are used to
Jibe....switch your feet like you are used to....ride heelside like you are used to...as a bonus when you kitesurf you don't always need to switch your feet...enjoy going toeside !!
Say no to twin tip

Neo 12 sqm wind range 11-22 knots...which basically mean that the ideal wind speed sweet spot is half way at 16.5 knots...much more than what you want to kite in
Juice 15 sqm wind range 9-17 knots...which basically mean that the ideal wind speed sweet spot is half way at 13.0 knots...exactly what you want to kite in
That information about the Neo 12 is in the chart for all Neos without taking in consideration the weight of the rider, but if you look up on the Sizefinder chart and you you input your weight (in my case 76-80 kg) and then choose a wind range of 11-15 kts and a Twin tip board, it tells me that the ideal kite size is a 12. Therefore, the sweet spot should be around 13 kts?

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jeromeL
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Re: Recommendations for a kite

Postby jeromeL » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:50 pm

Im same weight.
My 12 m range is 11 to 25 knots but usually over 22 i prefer 9m unless I want to boost higher ;)
I would say ideal on twintip for some standard trick and free ride is 17/18 knots
On surfboard ideal range is probably 14/15.

Honestly those chart aren't that accurate some guys like more power than others... especially te chart aroun 11/12 knots since you can use anything from 12m to 18m its quite subjective.

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Re: Recommendations for a kite

Postby PullStrings » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:16 pm

jeromeL wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:50 pm
Im same weight.
My 12 m range is 11 to 25 knots but usually over 22 i prefer 9m unless I want to boost higher ;)
I would say ideal on twintip for some standard trick and free ride is 17/18 knots
On surfboard ideal range is probably 14/15.

Honestly those chart aren't that accurate some guys like more power than others... especially te chart aroun 11/12 knots since you can use anything from 12m to 18m its quite subjective.
Listen to Jeromel....chart not accurate...just very basic guideline...i'm also same weight...ride 3 different width/length straps surfboards for 18 years..gave up totally windsurfing after 22 years
I go from a 17 sqm to a 12 sqm....if it's 15 knots or a bit less when i get to beach i sure don't rig a 12 ...the 12 goes up if it's at least 15-20 kn..with straps you can hold on to more kite power
Don't like to sine kite to generate power...i love to be juiced !


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