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Moving from F-one Bandit V to... Dice, Evo or Rebel?

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ldmelo
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Moving from F-one Bandit V to... Dice, Evo or Rebel?

Postby ldmelo » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:36 pm

I am in the sport for 9 years now. I had a few other kites, but I spent most of my time with a Bandit V 9m which I ride since 2012. This kite has being a great friend, but now it is old and full of repairs.

Overall I have been satisfied with the bandit. I never tried unhooked tricks, recently I have being working on a backroll transition with a kiteloop, some old school board offs, and I also like to ride some waves (on my TT - no $$ for a surf board).

What I don't like about the bandit is that I don't get to jump very high and I don't get much hang time. I fall very quickly. I see other guys flying around and I can't do that. Also, it may be my old version, but the kite can't handle gusts very well, it punches the bar. Overpowered situations are also a problem.

So... Now it is time to buy a new kite and I am thinking on moving from the Bandit to something different. Since I am planing to spend a long time with the new kite I am considering something durable, maybe North - friends say it is the best quality I will find.

So I looked into the North family and I found the Dice, the Evo and the Rebel. Which one would you guys recommend?? I first thought about the Rebel. It seems to jump higher and have a better hangtime, but people say it is bad for kiteloops. Getting a Dice.. I don't know if it would jump better than the bandit... would it? ... and the evo... 2018 is not out yet, and people say there will be changes in the struts.. can't make a decision here. ... and there so many other brands .. any thoughts??

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Dan-at-North
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Re: Moving from F-one Bandit V to... Dice, Evo or Rebel?

Postby Dan-at-North » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:53 pm

Idmelo-

The best thing you can do, especially as an experienced rider, is try to demo as many kites as you can, North and other brands. It sounds to me as though from what you're saying, any of the three North kites you've chosen will probably make you happy.

Unfortunately you'll find there is no such thing as the 'perfect' kite. Our best jumping kite is definitely the Rebel, it is very fast through the window, which gives it the great jumping and also gives it great upwind ability. I don't have a ton of experience looping the new Rebel, but it seemed better to me than previous years for looping, a more steady pull rather than slippery/whippy feeling. It also needs a little more experience with sheeting, you'll want to be good with your timing on the sheeting to make sure it climbs back overhead quickly. The quickness with which the Rebel gets to the edge of the window can be a detriment in the waves, but the 2018 Rebel is very stall-resistant, so, especially with a twintip which tends to not go as fast down the line with a drifting kite as a surfboard I don't think it would be a huge problem for the riding you're describing.

I have no experience on the 2018 Evo, but I know that in previous years it was a really good jumper as well, almost as good as the Rebel, with the added benefit of being a bit more forgiving if you didn't get your timing/redirect/sheeting perfect. The Evo has looped more quickly than the Rebel in the past. It gets through the loop and back overhead quicker, which can be good, but I also felt that it didn't give you as powerful/satisfying a yank as some other kites. As an all-around focused kite this should do you better in the waves than the Rebel, though I wouldn't define it as a 'wave-oriented' kite.

The Dice is a really solid option as well, especially if you have any interest in trying to unhook in the future. I'd just about guarantee it will outjump your older Bandit (delta-C kites were not known for their top-end or big jumping ability) but it will probably not get you up quite as high or hold you up quite as well as a Rebel or Evo. On the plus side, the looping of the Dice is really really good. Very consistent, very powerful, quick to get around and climb back up but with a satisfying pull all the way through. Of the three this is also the best wave-kite, being a well balanced 3 strut kite it can drift well when you turn down a wave with the wind, however as I mentioned above, this generally doesn't apply as much to twintips which require a bit of power at all times, lacking the volume/speed of a directional.

In short: biggest jumping, best for old-school, go Rebel. More forgiving/easier riding, still great for old-school, slightly better in waves, go Evo. Decent old-school but more emphasis on progressive riding/waves/kiteloops, go Dice.

Again, I think any of these kites will be a significant improvement in terms of jumping and range compared to a 2012 Bandit (this is not a slight against Bandits... I'd say the same thing if I were comparing to a 2012 Evo, which would be our closest comparable design), and I'm guessing any of them will make you happy. I'd highly recommend demoing them all (and adding anything else you can find to demo). If you can't get out on these kites, hopefully this helped. If you do get a chance to test these, feel free to let us know your thoughts, and if anyone else has anything to add that I've missed or fully gotten wrong, also feel free to jump in.

-Dan

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Re: Moving from F-one Bandit V to... Dice, Evo or Rebel?

Postby Dirk » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:55 pm

I rode a friend´s Bandit (I guess it was the 2016 or 17 model) and think it is a very nice kite. If you cannot jump high with this one and don´t have sufficient hang time it´s down to technique.
As you said, every brand has a solid allround kite which would cover what you want to do. Best quality...many people have varying opinions about that...
My choice is the Naish Pivot which covers Twintip riding (big air) and waves very nicely.
On the jumping technique side have a look at this tutorial: http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2393770
It is not very expensive and I think it is very good.

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Re: Moving from F-one Bandit V to... Dice, Evo or Rebel?

Postby jeromeL » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:09 pm

Dirk wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:55 pm
I rode a friend´s Bandit (I guess it was the 2016 or 17 model) and think it is a very nice kite. If you cannot jump high with this one and don´t have sufficient hang time it´s down to technique.
As you said, every brand has a solid allround kite which would cover what you want to do. Best quality...many people have varying opinions about that...
My choice is the Naish Pivot which covers Twintip riding (big air) and waves very nicely.
On the jumping technique side have a look at this tutorial: http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2393770
It is not very expensive and I think it is very good.
The 8th edition 10m has nice hangtime, the 9m feels A bit less but still more than cabrinha FX which drops you very fast. The 10mbzndit is great size though.
I haven't tried boosting kite that much also OP didn't really say what size he was looking for.
As far as learning transition loop, you can do the late loop kind of any kite, for the slightly more powered one something like dice or Bzndit should be better than Rebel from what people say about Rebel.
Personally I have never tried boosting kite, but could do one footer and grabs on Bandit 9m 8th edition.

boost specific kite are supposed to have more hangtime and a bit easier to boost on.

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Re: Moving from F-one Bandit V to... Dice, Evo or Rebel?

Postby ldmelo » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:37 am

Thanks for the answers!

Don't get me wrong. The bandit is indeed a very nice kite! .. I totally agree. Otherwise, I wouldn't have spent 5 years with it! And newer versions should be better. But after all this time I just want to try something new. Also I must mention I did have a few problems on my journey with the bandit (please note that they are probably all fixed on newer versions) :
- The bar got a lot of corrosion and was about to break up ( f-one replaced it under warranty).
- I had to reglue the valves (twice or 3 times.. don't remember).
- The valves once broke and I had to replace them.
- I had to replace the tubes connecting the LE to the struts (they kind of melted).
- The swivel simply does not work at all (never worked, I tried everything).
- The tube that goes through the bar (protecting the lines) broke and had to be replaced. I did a home fix on this one.. found a generic tube of the right diameter, cutted and installed it. It has worked fine ever since.
- The tube from the chicken loop cracked and the lines got partially exposed (I still have to fix that.. it seems I will have to buy the entire thing).

That is all I can remember... I want to minimize those kind of things for my next kite. I will do some research on the naish pivot, as recommended. From North I guess it would be the dice 2018 or the new evo (will have to wait to see how it goes).


.

Teabageppo
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Re: Moving from F-one Bandit V to... Dice, Evo or Rebel?

Postby Teabageppo » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:12 am

evo...closest to the bandit. Try them.

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jeromeL
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Re: Moving from F-one Bandit V to... Dice, Evo or Rebel?

Postby jeromeL » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:37 am

ldmelo wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:37 am
Thanks for the answers!

Don't get me wrong. The bandit is indeed a very nice kite! .. I totally agree. Otherwise, I wouldn't have spent 5 years with it! And newer versions should be better. But after all this time I just want to try something new. Also I must mention I did have a few problems on my journey with the bandit (please note that they are probably all fixed on newer versions) :
- The bar got a lot of corrosion and was about to break up ( f-one replaced it under warranty).
- I had to reglue the valves (twice or 3 times.. don't remember).
- The valves once broke and I had to replace them.
- I had to replace the tubes connecting the LE to the struts (they kind of melted).
- The swivel simply does not work at all (never worked, I tried everything).
- The tube that goes through the bar (protecting the lines) broke and had to be replaced. I did a home fix on this one.. found a generic tube of the right diameter, cutted and installed it. It has worked fine ever since.
- The tube from the chicken loop cracked and the lines got partially exposed (I still have to fix that.. it seems I will have to buy the entire thing).

That is all I can remember... I want to minimize those kind of things for my next kite. I will do some research on the naish pivot, as recommended. From North I guess it would be the dice 2018 or the new evo (will have to wait to see how it goes).


.
The 2018 fone bar is supposed to be better lol
I liked the kite but the bar swivel and secu didn't work for me either. I don't know what engineer decided it was ok to have a swivel with no torque applied to it ...
Wasnt so happy with durability of pulleys and other things... anyway I'm not on bandit anymore, I still have them but I am trying to get something different each time I upgrade a kite now ;)
Not sure there are magic kite with super durability, especially after 5 years ;) so far my best GP seems very durable except for bad valve which I changed after second session lol. I ruined my first fone quickly but that was my first kite so some of it is riding error ;)
Acrually about the valve i heard that Star kite have a new way to install valve flying them on inside and outside, so should be very durable on that end. Actually Star Taina would be good fit, its close to bandit but a bit more hangtime, kite is maybe a tiny bit slower but same direct feel. I have Star Sirius but tried Taina a bunch of times it's nice all round kite for sure.

I would go with dice over Evo but that's personal choice you have to make. But there are many other brand you can look out not sure which has better durability I thought most kite are constructed the same way nowadays.
Try to demo some.

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Re: Moving from F-one Bandit V to... Dice, Evo or Rebel?

Postby BigBafana » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:19 pm

I went from f-one to North (for the same reason as to just try another brand) and there were so many North kiters and reps where I live that I sort of got convinced to get one. But I wasn't too happy about my choice at the end of the day.
Afterwards I got myself a CrazyFly Sculp and was pleasantly surprised and was having real fun on the water again. Have a look at them. Really nice kites and in my eyes they're undervalued and not talked about enough. Flies just as well as a f-one, goes upwind really well, has really good hangtime and very competitive pricing too.

ldmelo
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Re: Moving from F-one Bandit V to... Dice, Evo or Rebel?

Postby ldmelo » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:59 am

BigBafana wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:19 pm
I went from f-one to North (for the same reason as to just try another brand) and there were so many North kiters and reps where I live that I sort of got convinced to get one. But I wasn't too happy about my choice at the end of the day.
Afterwards I got myself a CrazyFly Sculp and was pleasantly surprised and was having real fun on the water again. Have a look at them. Really nice kites and in my eyes they're undervalued and not talked about enough. Flies just as well as a f-one, goes upwind really well, has really good hangtime and very competitive pricing too.
Interesting.. I never heard about CrazyFly. Buying a kite nowadays is much like buying an android phone.. there are too many manufacturers and models, difficult to research them all.

Anyway... their website redirected me to a US online shop and the price for the sculp 9m is 1990usd with the bar.. not cheap at all.. Am I missing something?

I managed to try the rebel today for a few minutes (old model, 5 lines). It is a completely different game. I could jump higher, and a super hang time! Very different feeling. Sadly, I couldn't try anything more aggressive (the owner didn't let me LOL) . . But I found it also a bit slow, it was like an old lady moving from one side to the other. Must be great for starters though, or for those really focused on board offs, etc.
Last edited by ldmelo on Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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jeromeL
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Re: Moving from F-one Bandit V to... Dice, Evo or Rebel?

Postby jeromeL » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:05 am

ldmelo wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:59 am
BigBafana wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:19 pm
I went from f-one to North (for the same reason as to just try another brand) and there were so many North kiters and reps where I live that I sort of got convinced to get one. But I wasn't too happy about my choice at the end of the day.
Afterwards I got myself a CrazyFly Sculp and was pleasantly surprised and was having real fun on the water again. Have a look at them. Really nice kites and in my eyes they're undervalued and not talked about enough. Flies just as well as a f-one, goes upwind really well, has really good hangtime and very competitive pricing too.
Interesting.. Never heard about CrazyFly. Buying a kite nowadays is much like buying an android phone.. there are too many manufacturers and models, difficult to research them all.

Anyway... their website redirected me to a US online shop and the price for the sculp 9m is 1990usd with the bar.. not cheap at all.. Am I missing something?

I managed to try the rebel today for a few minutes (old model, 5 lines). It is a completely different game. I could jump higher, and a super hang time! Very different feeling. Sadly, I couldn't try anything more aggressive (the owner didn't let me LOL) . . But I found it also a bit too slow, it was like an old lady moving from one side to the other. Must be great for starters though, or for those really focused on board offs, etc.
Going away from Bandit a lot of things are going to feel slow ;) especially on 12m and up .
I havent tried many kite but he latest switchblade were acrually much faster than pre 2015.


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