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3D printing of kite plastic parts: low friction sliding ring

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purdyd
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Re: 3D printing of kite plastic parts: low friction sliding ring

Postby purdyd » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:26 am

randycasburn wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:46 pm
Right. I knew it was SLS printed from the images. I’m certain it will be great for a long while. I was referring to you advocating the printing of the “at home” as you did previously. People are unlikly to spend $2000+USD on a printer for this purpose. But they might try to print it on their $100 printer…that’s where the trouble comes in.
SLS machines are quite a bit more expensive than $2K, although there are some desktop machines that are changing that

However, it is still nylon and whether it is printed on a SLS $100K machine or $100 FDM machine at home, it will be about the same for physical characeristics but the surface finish will not be as nice.

I'd redesign it if I was printing on a FDM machine but ther is no reason it couldn' be made as is if you were willing to cut away some support material.

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Re: 3D printing of kite plastic parts: low friction sliding ring

Postby LetsFlyaKite » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:36 pm

jaystore wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:34 pm
SLS PRINTER, PA12 polyamide
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon_12
Tested since last summer and still brand new.
Image

Dude just admit it man, this printable O-ring thing is a bad idea. You have textured lettering written on the side of it which causes rope wear and eventually breakage. You think that because people can make it in their own homes it's going to be more greener for the enviorment, no and in fact it's the opposite. Why? Because when they break people are just going to throw them in the trash. And how long does it take for plastic to degrade? It lives almost forever.

And third, you have an O-ring that's made out of plastic.

Your life is supported by that O-ring, would you trust it with something that you printed up from the printer of your own home? How much does a real metal O-ring cost? About 20 bucks? If someone is too cheap to guard their life with 20 bucks then maybe they deserve whatever is comming to them with that printed plastic thing that you seem to think is good for everyone.

Check out these 3D printed skateboard wheels that these guys thought were a good idea. This is exactly where your idea is headed

phpBB [video]


This is also a liability issue, when someone prints out that cheap plastic thing on their printer and it breaks and they get hurt, who's ass do you think they're lawyer is going to go after?

So yeah, let's pretend that this thread never exist. But I give you credit for thinking of other people, it just wasn't done in the right way.

And i'm saying this because I care, and don't want to see anyone get hurt...

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Re: 3D printing of kite plastic parts: low friction sliding ring

Postby Bille » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:08 pm

LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:36 pm
[...
Dude just admit it man, this printable O-ring thing is a bad idea. You have textured lettering written on the side of it which causes rope wear and eventually breakage.
...

So yeah, let's pretend that this thread never exist. But I give you credit for thinking of other people, it just wasn't done in the right way.

And i'm saying this because I care, and don't want to see anyone get hurt...
I don't wanna see anyone get hurt either ; but were you aware that 3D printing
can be done in a carbon matrix now ? AND -- you can arrange the molecular
weight chains , in any direction Ya want now !! :o

So what happens if J** goes for a way stronger material on the inside , (like
a hub on a motorcycle wheel) ; then use a Delrin type plastic, where the
rope rubs against it ?

That's what went wrong in the skateboard wheel where the matrix was the wrong
direction and choice of molecules was wrong as well ; the honeycomb cells , should
have bin going between the bearing and outside of the wheel where a softer material
coulda bin used for grip to the surface it's rolling on.
The way he's got it now ; the stress runs down the outside walls of the wheel, and
they wern't thick enough.
But HELL NO should the guy give up trying, till he gets it right . :nono:

Not trying to start a fight LFAK ; i just got a way different opinion than you.
I'll go with YA , (now) on the raised letters though ! :thumb:

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Re: 3D printing of kite plastic parts: low friction sliding ring

Postby plummet » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:40 pm

This is an interesting marketing concept. Lets disregard for a moment if you think the design is right or wrong. Personally I think the design is fine other than will this be as low friction as a polished ring that you can currently buy for a yachting chandler for less?
The concept of printed components locally is intriguing. There is one main difficulty with manufacture in the manner. To obtain a low price point you need to manufacture with speed and in quantity to obtain economies of a scale to drive the price down. 3D printing is currently slow and purchasing a one off requires any set up fee to be incorporated into that one part.

So what is the solution? A 3d printing company that hold stocks of the products it sells? Still has slow manufacture time compared to injection moulded plastic parts.

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Re: 3D printing of kite plastic parts: low friction sliding ring

Postby randycasburn » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:08 pm

plummet wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:40 pm
Lets disregard for a moment if you think the design is right or wrong.
How about "safe" or "unsafe"? Not something we should ignore.

phpBB [video]

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Re: 3D printing of kite plastic parts: low friction sliding ring

Postby LetsFlyaKite » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:57 pm

Bille wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:08 pm
LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:36 pm
[...
Dude just admit it man, this printable O-ring thing is a bad idea. You have textured lettering written on the side of it which causes rope wear and eventually breakage.
...

So yeah, let's pretend that this thread never exist. But I give you credit for thinking of other people, it just wasn't done in the right way.

And i'm saying this because I care, and don't want to see anyone get hurt...
I don't wanna see anyone get hurt either ; but were you aware that 3D printing
can be done in a carbon matrix now ? AND -- you can arrange the molecular
weight chains , in any direction Ya want now !! :o

So what happens if J** goes for a way stronger material on the inside , (like
a hub on a motorcycle wheel) ; then use a Delrin type plastic, where the
rope rubs against it ?

That's what went wrong in the skateboard wheel where the matrix was the wrong
direction and choice of molecules was wrong as well ; the honeycomb cells , should
have bin going between the bearing and outside of the wheel where a softer material
coulda bin used for grip to the surface it's rolling on.
The way he's got it now ; the stress runs down the outside walls of the wheel, and
they wern't thick enough.
But HELL NO should the guy give up trying, till he gets it right . :nono:

Not trying to start a fight LFAK ; i just got a way different opinion than you.
I'll go with YA , (now) on the raised letters though ! :thumb:

Bille
Bille, he is making a life protecting device out of plastic. Out of plastic!

Would you trust this on your hang glider? To be dangling off of it at high altitudes? Would a rock climber use one of these to support his weight off the side of a cliff??? I don't care what kind of plastic he's using, the point is, it's plastic! Not to mention it also has textured surface that will wear down the rope. And the fact it's made from plastic means when your weight is supported by it and it slides around on the rope, the rope might wear tracks on the inside of the plastic O ring causing it to eventually wear down on the rope.

This is a dangerous product, and it could get someone seriously injured. :nono:
Bille wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:08 pm
So what happens if J** goes for a way stronger material on the inside , (like
a hub on a motorcycle wheel) ; then use a Delrin type plastic, where the
rope rubs against it ?
You're talking about steel?

How many people do you know that can make a ring out of steel? And if someone goes though the trouble of putting a steel ring inside a plastic ring, they might as well polish the steel down and make an O-Ring out of that.

It would cost more to make it out of steel and plastic then just out of steel alone. And what about the rope sliding around on the plastic? Like I said before, the rope will eventually wear tracks in the plastic, and that will eventually wear down the rope.

Man, and to think no one takes me seriously on this board is unreal... My comments save lives!

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Re: 3D printing of kite plastic parts: low friction sliding ring

Postby jaystore » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:59 pm

Hello, I'm the designer of this part and my colleague told me about this post and about people writing warnings and try to push down an innovation that was invented by a beautiful mind.

!3D PRINTING!

But my post is not about this but about the sliding ring made of PA12 and I explain few more things:

1 The CL goes around the ring and is kept in place thanks to the U shape, it won't exit in case of power loss. The kite power goes from lines to CL to ring to rope, so the ring is compressed and will never break. In the case it does break there is no safety issue because the CL is around the rope. The ring hole is 10mm to avoid that user try to insert the CL inside the hole and use the ring the wrong way. The ring is 6mm thick of solid PA12 plastic, no honeycomb structure like the skateboard wheel.

2 The PA12 plastic is better than ALU because not subject to corrosion. Who does water sports knows that spreaderbars in ALU became corroded in few months. The friction of the rope takes years to cut the ring because every time you attach the CL the ring is a different position, you have 360° of 6mm PA12 to erode. Eventually you can 3D print is SS316 polished, costs only 63€ ;)

3 The JAY embossed is below the rope path and, as explained above about random position of the ring, the possibility to have the JAY crossing the rope is 3x5%=15% . If you notice the DYNABAR XC picture there is a circular groove of 0,5mm deep, that means is 100% in the rope path and we had no rope wear or break.

4 The ring can also be resized to host CL tubes bigger than 14-15mm, in this case you also resize thickness.

My last comment is that LetsFlyaKite and randycasburn have no idea of what they are talking about and my suggestion to them is to study a little bit more materials and technical design.
cad3d.jpg

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Re: 3D printing of kite plastic parts: low friction sliding ring

Postby randycasburn » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:01 pm

I don't know what I'm talking about for sure. I simply ask you be cautious about being irresponsible stating what can be achieved with a home based 3D printer. To advocate that the same product with the same safety characteristics with a home 3D printer is ludicrous.

As a consolation, please allow me to compliment your work. What you've done with a professionally produced product that is safe is interesting and compelling.

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Re: 3D printing of kite plastic parts: low friction sliding ring

Postby LetsFlyaKite » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:44 am

jaystore wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:59 pm
Hello, I'm the designer of this part and my colleague told me about this post and about people writing warnings and try to push down an innovation that was invented by a beautiful mind.

!3D PRINTING!

But my post is not about this but about the sliding ring made of PA12 and I explain few more things:

1 The CL goes around the ring and is kept in place thanks to the U shape, it won't exit in case of power loss. The kite power goes from lines to CL to ring to rope, so the ring is compressed and will never break. In the case it does break there is no safety issue because the CL is around the rope. The ring hole is 10mm to avoid that user try to insert the CL inside the hole and use the ring the wrong way. The ring is 6mm thick of solid PA12 plastic, no honeycomb structure like the skateboard wheel.
When it does break, and I say when because everyone here already knows that plastic will eventually shatter, weather it be from the stress loads put on it, or the hot and cold weather, it's eventually going to break, so keep that in mind...

And when it does break, it's not just going to shatter into a million pieces and dissapear into thin air, it's going to chip and crack and there will probably be parts of the plastic still wedged in between the chicken loop and rope. And these sharp pieces of plastic will be like little razorblades that cut into the rope that can potentially kill someone.

I don't need that shit, and I'm sure nobody else around here needs it either.
jaystore wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:59 pm
2 The PA12 plastic is better than ALU because not subject to corrosion. Who does water sports knows that spreaderbars in ALU became corroded in few months. The friction of the rope takes years to cut the ring because every time you attach the CL the ring is a different position, you have 360° of 6mm PA12 to erode. Eventually you can 3D print is SS316 polished, costs only 63€ ;)
You act like every rope sliding harness is the same. Some harnesses have thinner ropes, and others have thicker. The thinner rope harnesses are more prone to slicing. Not everyone wants a Jay harness, Jay...
jaystore wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:59 pm
3 The JAY embossed is below the rope path and, as explained above about random position of the ring, the possibility to have the JAY crossing the rope is 3x5%=15% . If you notice the DYNABAR XC picture there is a circular groove of 0,5mm deep, that means is 100% in the rope path and we had no rope wear or break.
Is that right? Well then lets look again at this picture you posted...

Image

Wow, look at that, the lettering is right in the way of the rope, imagine that.

You can also imagine going toeside on your board with the ring right at the edge of the harness and digging into that lettering. Not only the lettering, but also that dumb groove in the middle too, which I haven't even began to talk about.
jaystore wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:59 pm
4 The ring can also be resized to host CL tubes bigger than 14-15mm, in this case you also resize thickness.
Dude, nobody gives a shit...

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Re: 3D printing of kite plastic parts: low friction sliding ring

Postby Bille » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:54 am

LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:57 pm
...

Bille, he is making a life protecting device out of plastic. Out of plastic!

Would you trust this on your hang glider? To be dangling off of it at high altitudes? Would a rock climber use one of these to support his weight off the side of a cliff??? I don't care what kind of plastic he's using, the point is, it's plastic!
...
Man, and to think no one takes me seriously on this board is unreal... My comments save lives!
I do take Ya serious ; my opinion is different !
HELL-NO would i trust my life to, "THAT" part he made (.) :nono:

I know they can 3D print in carbon and aluminum and plastic , (with many different grades)
and the matrix can be arranged an infinite # of ways.
All I'm saying, is that a solution, "Could" be found ; and giving-Up is NOT an option.

Bille


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