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At last ... got to ride the Rebel (2018) and XR5 back to back

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ChickenD!ken
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Re: At last ... got to ride the Rebel (2018) and XR5 back to back

Postby ChickenD!ken » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:45 pm

Before I went for the XR I was allowed to test all the Core kites I wanted to. I also haven’t experienced flutter on the Free (3 struts does not necessarily equal ‘flappy curtains’). Nice kite but the XR does what the Free does plus a whole lot more. And the XR is accessible enough for a beginner that I’m not sure the Free has much use. But for sure a nice cruiser.

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Re: At last ... got to ride the Rebel (2018) and XR5 back to back

Postby PullStrings » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:35 pm

Tested Juice 15 2017 vs Free 15 2017....both 3 struts...North don't flap...has small solid battens...Free has no battens and flaps ...when downlooped and kitelooped
Maybe Free as you go down in size flaps less and less...flapping can happen when the distance between the center strut & wingtip strut is long ... not enough support for trailing edge cloth

In testing my favorite was XR5 in size 17...incredible wind range for me at 8-20kn...total silence in the loops...rock solid canopy...awesome performer

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DWX
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Re: At last ... got to ride the Rebel (2018) and XR5 back to back

Postby DWX » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:59 pm

LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:37 pm
DWX wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:51 pm
PullStrings wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:29 pm


I demoed the Free size 15 and could not stand the annoying trailing edge flapping noise when looping it...flapping like a shower curtain :lol: i returned that 3 strutter right away
Which kite doesn’t flap when you loop it too slow? 🙄
You must not ride a lot of different kites
No, I pump my kite and like a good kook just go on the water without seeing or hearing anyone else on the beach even though I am kiting at spots where an observant non-look could count about 70 kites per 100m of beach 🙄🙄🙄 You are a genuine idiot

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DWX
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Re: At last ... got to ride the Rebel (2018) and XR5 back to back

Postby DWX » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:13 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:35 pm
Tested Juice 15 2017 vs Free 15 2017....both 3 struts...North don't flap...has small solid battens...Free has no battens and flaps ...when downlooped and kitelooped
Maybe Free as you go down in size flaps less and less...flapping can happen when the distance between the center strut & wingtip strut is long ... not enough support for trailing edge cloth

In testing my favorite was XR5 in size 17...incredible wind range for me at 8-20kn...total silence in the loops...rock solid canopy...awesome performer
I have a 6 and a 15m Free, they flap when I loop too slow, yes, the 15 flaps more bc it has more surface to flap, logical; I’m not sure why flap bothers anyone; doesn’t bother me one bit! I like the Free range, a lot. I like 3-strut kites bc they are fast and go down the wave nicely and still get you up wind fast! It’s just me. Take it or leave it. Not trying to convince anyone. But I’m not chasing hangtime, so the XR is kinda useless to me, though it feels nice once in a while. It’s like choosing your dress in the morning: if the mood is light, pink i.e. Free, if you are serious, black i.e. XR. Best to have both ranges... just me... Yes, all tests do show the Free definitely positively certainly offers LESS hangtime, but way more versatility 😊😘😘😘Have fun and hang loose, boys n girls

ChickenD!ken
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Re: At last ... got to ride the Rebel (2018) and XR5 back to back

Postby ChickenD!ken » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:25 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:35 pm
Tested Juice 15 2017 vs Free 15 2017....both 3 struts...North don't flap...has small solid battens...Free has no battens and flaps ...when downlooped and kitelooped
Maybe Free as you go down in size flaps less and less...flapping can happen when the distance between the center strut & wingtip strut is long ... not enough support for trailing edge cloth

In testing my favorite was XR5 in size 17...incredible wind range for me at 8-20kn...total silence in the loops...rock solid performer
I’ll take your word for it since I was on the 11 and 13.5 Free which are more beefy than the 15 light wind model.

With respect to the light wind XRs, the 19 and 17 are almost identical in performance..and almost too much of the good stuff. At 16kts on the 19 I feel like I’m attached to a small airplane or glider, but like all the XR sizes it’s a kite that is at its best in that mid to high end but without making you feel like you’re being taken for a ride. Its a kite that lets you work it with the board really easily in most conditions. Like you I’m also impressed with how tight and refined it feels despite the size. I really love light wind kites in general (will give foiling a go one day eventually). Light wind kites are tons of fun when you find the lively ones.

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Re: At last ... got to ride the Rebel (2018) and XR5 back to back

Postby PullStrings » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:39 pm

DWX wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:13 pm
It’s like choosing your dress in the morning: if the mood is light, pink i.e. Free
This bunny printed trailing edge will sure flap in the wind :jap:

Image

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LetsFlyaKite
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Re: At last ... got to ride the Rebel (2018) and XR5 back to back

Postby LetsFlyaKite » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:14 am

DWX wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:59 pm
LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:37 pm
DWX wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:51 pm


Which kite doesn’t flap when you loop it too slow? 🙄
You must not ride a lot of different kites
No, I pump my kite and like a good kook just go on the water without seeing or hearing anyone else on the beach even though I am kiting at spots where an observant non-look could count about 70 kites per 100m of beach 🙄🙄🙄 You are a genuine idiot
What you just said made no sense at all.

What I was saying is that there are a lot of kites that don't flap when you loop them, hence the reason I said
LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:37 pm
You must not ride a lot of different kites
Which is true or else you wouldn't have made such a dumb comment....

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yomotha
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Re: At last ... got to ride the Rebel (2018) and XR5 back to back

Postby yomotha » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:00 am

Aren't most of the "pros" using a GTS for their megaloops?

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Re: At last ... got to ride the Rebel (2018) and XR5 back to back

Postby Teabageppo » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:38 am

lindseym wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:50 am
Wind - about 26 to 32
Kite size - Both 9m
Bars - North click bar and the Sensor on the Core
Rider - 155 lbs

Overall I was extremely impressed with both kites. The wind was really gusty at times and felt really comfortable on each. Both also have alot of high end. I didn't have to depower each more than halfway. The Rebel felt "locked" in the sky; stability that is so good that it makes you want to push the boundaries of what you can do. The Core was solid as well but I felt like I had to keep my eye on it a bit more. That said, the Core is a tab bit more responsive and is definitely recommended to those wanting to megaloop. It may also turn a little faster but not much. When I did looping surface tricks (darkslides and such) on each kite the Rebel was a little easier. In terms of lift and boost, both are so good that it really depends upon the pilot. I didn't have a woo but my guess is that the hangtime was better on the Rebel but again this is probably because of the way I was flying the kite.

Consensus - Both kites are killer but (to me) the Rebel feels a bit more comfortable and has better hangtime. For those looking to megaloop or unhook a bit I think the XR will be for you. Try each out and let me know you're thoughts.
Cheers all,
Lm


In Summary I will say that Lindseym’s observations were very insightful and I concur. Read between the lines and you would do well to take note of his findings.

To hopefully add to the mix as well (although Lindseym has it pretty much nailed)

The four guys I test kites with happen to fly the Core XR5, the new North Evo and the new Core GTS (all 10m) at the same time. Someone sitting on the beach…just rotating through using TT’s and a brand new demo North Nugget… (to try and get a feel across two different board types).

We have tested the 10/13 2018 rebel a few times now.
I fly 8/10m 2017 rebels and the lads fly 2016/2017 dices and Evo’s for background.

We all hate the new Evo, so that’s that really. But that’s irrelevant to this thread.

We all really enjoyed the GTS, direct, awesome looping kite and of course will work for unhooking really well…not that we do that anymore, bodies to messed up now.


The XR5 Core: To put lindseym’s observations in a slightly different form I’d say like always there is a cost benefit between stability and versatility. The rebel still indeed feels more locked in the sky, in that you don’t have to concentrate as much on the throw and kite positioning when doing tricks up there. It gives you the confidence to do more than just jump big. And the rebel and X5 (and 2016/2017) evo will take you up there depending on the pilot.

Access to the vertical component of a jump is much easier on the 2018 rebel and the XR5 compared to the 2017 rebel.

But the hangtime on the 2017 rebel is noticeably better...more stable and more hangtime..which you would only notice if you take your tricks beyond the simple stuff.

I felt it to on the XR5…I had to pay more attention to the throw and the positioning..but you'd adjust to that over time.

BUT…the core is more versatile for sure. It actually has a little drift in it. It loops quite well and better than the new rebel actually... turns slightly faster, but same same really.

(but not as good …as the 2017 rebel…although the core was on the middle settings for each and I run my 2017 10m on the fast, light bar pressure settings…so again this needs more investigating).

But both kites have that High Y, strong connection between front and back line feel…that rock solid stability in the sky.

We have demoed literally hundreds of kites over the years and very very rarely do we say…this kite needs further investigating. It’s normally “nah not any better or generally worse than what we are riding”.

But all four of us said the XR5 needs further investigating, (and the mainly dice rider is gonna look into the GTS more). This is also probably due to the fact that we are appalled at what North has done to both the Evo and Rebel this year. Don’t like them one bit.

We liked the XR5. Definitely worth a ride. It is more of an all-rounder than the rebel I'd say especially in the beginner to intermediate hands, which is most riders.

But they are really both good big jumping, old school type kites that can handle wind at the top or even slightly beyond their designated wind range.

That's 5 struts for you.......evo...grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

ChickenD!ken
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Re: At last ... got to ride the Rebel (2018) and XR5 back to back

Postby ChickenD!ken » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:02 am

Teabageppo wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:38 am
lindseym wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:50 am
Wind - about 26 to 32
Kite size - Both 9m
Bars - North click bar and the Sensor on the Core
Rider - 155 lbs

Overall I was extremely impressed with both kites. The wind was really gusty at times and felt really comfortable on each. Both also have alot of high end. I didn't have to depower each more than halfway. The Rebel felt "locked" in the sky; stability that is so good that it makes you want to push the boundaries of what you can do. The Core was solid as well but I felt like I had to keep my eye on it a bit more. That said, the Core is a tab bit more responsive and is definitely recommended to those wanting to megaloop. It may also turn a little faster but not much. When I did looping surface tricks (darkslides and such) on each kite the Rebel was a little easier. In terms of lift and boost, both are so good that it really depends upon the pilot. I didn't have a woo but my guess is that the hangtime was better on the Rebel but again this is probably because of the way I was flying the kite.

Consensus - Both kites are killer but (to me) the Rebel feels a bit more comfortable and has better hangtime. For those looking to megaloop or unhook a bit I think the XR will be for you. Try each out and let me know you're thoughts.
Cheers all,
Lm


In Summary I will say that Lindseym’s observations were very insightful and I concur. Read between the lines and you would do well to take note of his findings.

To hopefully add to the mix as well (although Lindseym has it pretty much nailed)

The four guys I test kites with happen to fly the Core XR5, the new North Evo and the new Core GTS (all 10m) at the same time. Someone sitting on the beach…just rotating through using TT’s and a brand new demo North Nugget… (to try and get a feel across two different board types).

We have tested the 10/13 2018 rebel a few times now.
I fly 8/10m 2017 rebels and the lads fly 2016/2017 dices and Evo’s for background.

We all hate the new Evo, so that’s that really. But that’s irrelevant to this thread.

We all really enjoyed the GTS, direct, awesome looping kite and of course will work for unhooking really well…not that we do that anymore, bodies to messed up now.


The XR5 Core: To put lindseym’s observations in a slightly different form I’d say like always there is a cost benefit between stability and versatility. The rebel still indeed feels more locked in the sky, in that you don’t have to concentrate as much on the throw and kite positioning when doing tricks up there. It gives you the confidence to do more than just jump big. And the rebel and X5 (and 2016/2017) evo will take you up there depending on the pilot.

Access to the vertical component of a jump is much easier on the 2018 rebel and the XR5 compared to the 2017 rebel.

But the hangtime on the 2017 rebel is noticeably better...more stable and more hangtime..which you would only notice if you take your tricks beyond the simple stuff.

I felt it to on the XR5…I had to pay more attention to the throw and the positioning..but you'd adjust to that over time.

BUT…the core is more versatile for sure. It actually has a little drift in it. It loops quite well and better than the new rebel actually... turns slightly faster, but same same really.

(but not as good …as the 2017 rebel…although the core was on the middle settings for each and I run my 2017 10m on the fast, light bar pressure settings…so again this needs more investigating).

But both kites have that High Y, strong connection between front and back line feel…that rock solid stability in the sky.

We have demoed literally hundreds of kites over the years and very very rarely do we say…this kite needs further investigating. It’s normally “nah not any better or generally worse than what we are riding”.

But all four of us said the XR5 needs further investigating, (and the mainly dice rider is gonna look into the GTS more). This is also probably due to the fact that we are appalled at what North has done to both the Evo and Rebel this year. Don’t like them one bit.

We liked the XR5. Definitely worth a ride. It is more of an all-rounder than the rebel I'd say especially in the beginner to intermediate hands, which is most riders.

But they are really both good big jumping, old school type kites that can handle wind at the top or even slightly beyond their designated wind range.

That's 5 struts for you.......evo...grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
I can only reiterate what I’ve said here and on the other XR/Rebel thread: the XR is not a kite you can sum up after a few minutes of riding (previously you said your group would spend 15 minutes each on it). That’s like doing a lap of the car dealership parking lot and concluding on the handling qualities. It takes a little while to get a feel for the XR and I think that goes for pretty much every level of rider that tests it. Get a 12m out on the water in 18-26kts for a few hours, don’t forget to play with bridle settings and you will have your conclusion. You really need to try it out on a day when you can make the most of its high end attributes. When I say I’m not good enough to max the 9m, this is what I’m getting at. I’m perfectly happy boosting 12-15 meters but you just know this kite will go further and further if you put in the effort. Christ, my 6m is barely stretching it’s legs at 35kts. I’m not interested in 20+ meter jumps or megalooping a bow kite for that matter, so giving it the beans on the 9m is really for riders that want to push their skills to the limit. There is much potential to unlock with this kite and I suppose it’s fine to focus on boosting capabilities, but that doesn’t even come close to summing it up. It is accessible for beginners because of it’s massive depower but will easily please intermediate to advance riders with its stability and ‘tune-ability’.
Last edited by ChickenD!ken on Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.


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