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Kite fatality in Thailand

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br44
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Re: Kite fatality in Thailand

Postby br44 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:33 am

plummet wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:45 pm

The issue i have is that i keep loosing the knifes. I'ev tried several over the years and various different mounting methods. They all have been torn off and lost in crashes. I'm interested to know if anyone has found a secure method of holding a knife.
Knife insurance: tie your knife to a relatively sturdy anchor (I tied mine to my PFD). The line should be longer than your arms, to allow the knife to be used freely if needed. In my case both the knife and the line are in the PFD pocket. Actually I haven't tested this in an emergency, but I know that my knife won't sink to the bottom should I grab it and then drop it by mistake.

Osprey1
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Re: Kite fatality in Thailand

Postby Osprey1 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:34 am

So sad to hear about the fatality in Hua Hin. Maybe we can make the best of this tragedy by using it as a lesson to always carry a knife and to plan.

I hope the following story can convince you of how important it is to carry a kite knife. A few years back I had a very scary incident on a powered 9m day in 38 degree water where one of my flying lines snapped during a jump. When this occurred my kite started pulling towards shore and two of the lines became caught about 5-6 feet under a large metal buoy. Meanwhile my legs became hogtied within the broken line and as the kite powered up in at the edge of the window I began get pulled underwater and toward the buoy by my feet. Luckily it was gusty and the lines would pulse under tension as the kite moved back and forth on the side of the window. As I approached the buoy and got progressively pulled deeper on each pulse I took a deep calming breath just above the surface, removed my gloves so as to ensure I had a grip on the knife and during a small window when the lines went slack I cut myself free.

My kite sailed into shore downwind and while still hogtied I swam the last 50m to shore thankfully free of my kite. Upon getting to shore it took me 15 minutes to cut and remove all of the lines from my ankles. Thankfully I had a 6mm wetsuit on which prevented any lacerations. After this incident I always carry two knives on my harness (on the front and side) in case one is dropped.

Bottom line: If I didn't have a knife on hand there is a decent chance I wouldn't be writing this so please carry knife with you and know how to use it.

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Peert
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Re: Kite fatality in Thailand

Postby Peert » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:26 am

@Osprey: Thanks for sharing.

@All: Maybe the unlucky one in Thailand did carry a knife...?

@Family and friends of the deceased: Do not take the conversation here as blaming the victim. This is the common response when one of our brothers/sisters passes away while practising our beloved sport. We want to keep ourselves and our fellows safe and thus we are as a community very keen to learn from every accident and share our views.
Our thoughts are with you. Condolences.
Last edited by Peert on Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Osprey1
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Re: Kite fatality in Thailand

Postby Osprey1 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:35 pm

Yes our thoughts are with the family. Thoughts and prayers with them.

iriejohn
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Re: Kite fatality in Thailand

Postby iriejohn » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:24 am

Very sad especially for his family. :(
matth wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:42 pm
Sad, RIP :( :( :( :(

knife , knife , knife can't say it enough. And that cheap ass one that comes with your harness should by your second or third choice in an emergency.

Ezzycut is the best, nice little holster , replaceable blades, two sided....gold standard IMO..

https://eezycut.com/
I carry two Ezzycut knives, one on the left of my harness and the other on the right. Still see many going out without even a basic knife.

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Re: Kite fatality in Thailand

Postby matth » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:39 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:24 am
Very sad especially for his family. :(
matth wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:42 pm
Sad, RIP :( :( :( :(

knife , knife , knife can't say it enough. And that cheap ass one that comes with your harness should by your second or third choice in an emergency.

Ezzycut is the best, nice little holster , replaceable blades, two sided....gold standard IMO..

https://eezycut.com/
I carry two Ezzycut knives, one on the left of my harness and the other on the right. Still see many going out without even a basic knife.
:thumb: :thumb: Locked and loaded

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Re: Kite fatality in Thailand

Postby iriejohn » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:52 pm

matth wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:39 pm
:thumb: :thumb: Locked and loaded
Yes, for sure! :thumb:

FredBGG
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Re: Kite fatality in Thailand

Postby FredBGG » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:20 pm

Sorry to hear about another fatality. RIP.

Bouys is waves can be very dangerous. The body is bouncing around and can literally appear from no where and sink under the crest of a wave.

The other huge risk is that if you get tangled in a body the problem is that the buoy is anchored to the sea floor. If the kite is still catching wind or even worse a wave you can be pulled under in a fraction of a second. Underwater or against current it is very difficult to reach your release.

The real problem here is that when shit happens kiters are not ready for the problem.
The problem with the safety release is that it is not like the brakes of your car. In your car you use the brakes all the time just for regular driving.
When you need them in an emergency you are not going to have any problem finding the brake peddle.
With kiting you may go months without needing the safety release. Tis is why about 10 years ago I came up with the phrase "Safety Release Reflex".
Because we don't use the safety release on a regular basis it's important to train yourself to develop muscle memory for finding your safety release and tactile familiarity so you know you have actually grabbed the right thing.

Sure this may seem rather silly... like "I know where my safety release is", but the problem is that sure you know where to is IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT.
The problem is that there is no (or very very little) time to think.

What I do (and have been doing to years) is to reach down, get a grip and feel my safety release. Grab it from the top, grab it from the bottom feel it with warm hands and cold hands. I do this almost once every tack or sort of as a good luck and celebration ritual after a trick or a nice wave.

What this does is it develops muscle memory for finding the release when you need it quick. I even find that I have a hand on it before I even think about it.

I'll also do a safety release "fondle" when I cross paths with a busy on the water..... well just after I cross paths... just for good luck and reflex.

Safety Release Reflex. SRR is your friend. Also very important to develop the same Reflex for your secondary release. Your main release my not depower your kite if the depower line or lines are tangled.

Another issue is your line knife. Actually your three line knifes. I have one in my harness and one on each sleeve. You do not know what can get tangled and you my not have a free hand. You may also drop a knife and need a backup.

Also practice with the knife is really important. You don't wan't to be learning how to use the knife or how to pull it out when shit is happening.
I actually took the blade out of one of my knives to I could practice hooking it to lines as if I was trying to cut a line.

Also put a film of board wax (very soft) on the blade or blades of your line knife. This will keep the line from dulling over time. Use a very thin film of
soft wax. When you use the knife the wax won't impede the cutting ability. While stainless steel blades do not rust metallic minerals do deposit on metal and dull the blade.

Remember your line knife is going to be far less useful if you have not practiced using it. Remember you are most likely going to have a mouth full of water, be upside down and getting the mother of all weggies from your harness when you need to start cutting lines. You need to be damn good at it when the time comes.

Be safe and above all be ready. The better you are at kiting the more important it is fro you to practice because your going to go months or years without having to use either your release or your knife.

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geir
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Re: Kite fatality in Thailand

Postby geir » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:25 am

Condolences to family and friends.

This one hit close to home, first news said Icelandic - than later on Irelandic. Our very small community made me start counting, only two abroad. Still very sad news.

About the knives issue. BUNGEE CHORD, that's what I use. Mind you I'm not your usual kiter. I'm missing a right arm below elbow so I keep one in a harness, the other on my chest on my impact west. This way I think I minimize the risk of loosing my knife should I need to use it.

I've been made fun of by an instructor in Costa Rica with the comment "do you have enough knives?" The same one made fun of me for wearing a helmet. That was in 30+ knots and I was doing my biggest jumps so far (around 30 feet jumps, not exaggerating). Never saw him kite though.

I would like to say to you instructor if you read this - you daft prick! Safety first! Even thought we take it to extreme! Winter Icelandic fronts are kid stuff compered to your warm whether gusty wind in Costa Rica.

matth
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Re: Kite fatality in Thailand

Postby matth » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:32 am

FredBGG wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:20 pm
Sorry to hear about another fatality. RIP.

Bouys is waves can be very dangerous. The body is bouncing around and can literally appear from no where and sink under the crest of a wave.

The other huge risk is that if you get tangled in a body the problem is that the buoy is anchored to the sea floor. If the kite is still catching wind or even worse a wave you can be pulled under in a fraction of a second. Underwater or against current it is very difficult to reach your release.

The real problem here is that when shit happens kiters are not ready for the problem.
The problem with the safety release is that it is not like the brakes of your car. In your car you use the brakes all the time just for regular driving.
When you need them in an emergency you are not going to have any problem finding the brake peddle.
With kiting you may go months without needing the safety release. Tis is why about 10 years ago I came up with the phrase "Safety Release Reflex".
Because we don't use the safety release on a regular basis it's important to train yourself to develop muscle memory for finding your safety release and tactile familiarity so you know you have actually grabbed the right thing.

Sure this may seem rather silly... like "I know where my safety release is", but the problem is that sure you know where to is IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT.
The problem is that there is no (or very very little) time to think.

What I do (and have been doing to years) is to reach down, get a grip and feel my safety release. Grab it from the top, grab it from the bottom feel it with warm hands and cold hands. I do this almost once every tack or sort of as a good luck and celebration ritual after a trick or a nice wave.

What this does is it develops muscle memory for finding the release when you need it quick. I even find that I have a hand on it before I even think about it.

I'll also do a safety release "fondle" when I cross paths with a busy on the water..... well just after I cross paths... just for good luck and reflex.

Safety Release Reflex. SRR is your friend. Also very important to develop the same Reflex for your secondary release. Your main release my not depower your kite if the depower line or lines are tangled.

Another issue is your line knife. Actually your three line knifes. I have one in my harness and one on each sleeve. You do not know what can get tangled and you my not have a free hand. You may also drop a knife and need a backup.

Also practice with the knife is really important. You don't wan't to be learning how to use the knife or how to pull it out when shit is happening.
I actually took the blade out of one of my knives to I could practice hooking it to lines as if I was trying to cut a line.

Also put a film of board wax (very soft) on the blade or blades of your line knife. This will keep the line from dulling over time. Use a very thin film of
soft wax. When you use the knife the wax won't impede the cutting ability. While stainless steel blades do not rust metallic minerals do deposit on metal and dull the blade.


Remember your line knife is going to be far less useful if you have not practiced using it. Remember you are most likely going to have a mouth full of water, be upside down and getting the mother of all weggies from your harness when you need to start cutting lines. You need to be damn good at it when the time comes.

Be safe and above all be ready. The better you are at kiting the more important it is fro you to practice because your going to go months or years without having to use either your release or your knife.

AGREE 100% :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

When I land my kite instead of undoing my Donkey Dick and then Unhooking chicken loop from hook I simply hit my QR, its faster, keeps the mechanics fresh and functioning properly, and of course it helps develop SRR....


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