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Risk vs reward... learning and progression at 40

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bmcfiv
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Risk vs reward... learning and progression at 40

Postby bmcfiv » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:56 pm

I have three basic questions.

1) What tricks / jumps / situations present the highest risk of injury?
2) If you are a 40 yr old beginner / intermediate, what tricks / etc present an unacceptable risk reward profile?
3) Is it worth moving to a full C kite?

I started 1.5 years ago and like everyone on this forum became immediately obsessed. I've lost 20 lbs, am eating healthy, working out, etc... all b/c I want to improve my KB skills. I have some basic tricks dialed in (rolls, flips, load and pop...) and am jumping close to 30 ft, and am currently working on backroll kiteloops, front rolls, dark slide and will always try to jump higher. One unique element is that i have planar fasciitis so I have to wear boots, which of course has resulted in one concussion and a double labrum tear in my shoulder, but no option to wear straps.

So the driver behind me asking this questions is where do I go from here? I have a LF Envy and am debating buying the Eleveight FS (full C) vs the RS (SLE), is a C too much? Do I continue to try and jump higher? Do I go for mega loops one day... or should I accept my age and just dial in the low risk tricks and be content with those.

Anyway, any middle age progression advice is much appreciated!!!!

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Toby
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Re: Risk vs reward... learning and progression at 40

Postby Toby » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:10 pm

My biggest progression started with 40.

Check www.airstyle.tv and learn more about the tricks.

Strictly hooked with a bigger kite in lighter wind will give you the most progression in this sport, with minimal risk.
Doing wake style tricks and kiteloops will have the highest risk of an injury.

Don't let anyone tell you what is cool and what not...Do what you think is the best for you and gives you the most fun!
luckily I never listened to those people...therefore I still progress with every session, now being 46!

Good luck finding your style !

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LiquidXtasy
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Re: Risk vs reward... learning and progression at 40

Postby LiquidXtasy » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:30 pm

bmcfiv wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:56 pm
I have three basic questions.

1) What tricks / jumps / situations present the highest risk of injury?
2) If you are a 40 yr old beginner / intermediate, what tricks / etc present an unacceptable risk reward profile?
3) Is it worth moving to a full C kite?

I started 1.5 years ago and like everyone on this forum became immediately obsessed. I've lost 20 lbs, am eating healthy, working out, etc... all b/c I want to improve my KB skills. I have some basic tricks dialed in (rolls, flips, load and pop...) and am jumping close to 30 ft, and am currently working on backroll kiteloops, front rolls, dark slide and will always try to jump higher. One unique element is that i have planar fasciitis so I have to wear boots, which of course has resulted in one concussion and a double labrum tear in my shoulder, but no option to wear straps.

So the driver behind me asking this questions is where do I go from here? I have a LF Envy and am debating buying the Eleveight FS (full C) vs the RS (SLE), is a C too much? Do I continue to try and jump higher? Do I go for mega loops one day... or should I accept my age and just dial in the low risk tricks and be content with those.

Anyway, any middle age progression advice is much appreciated!!!!
Just do whatever you feel like doing.

I personally like flying C kites better because not only are they more fun to fly, but they loop quicker and pull more in the turns, they also launch you off the water instead of gently lifting you up like you're on a elevator. But I mostly ride hooked in, do loops, and dabble with unhooked every now and then.

The biggest risk you can take is going at tricks you don't know how to do at full windspeed. I like to start out practicing on lightwind with lightwind kites, and then move up with smaller kites in higher wind, this way the chances of landing are increased and the risks are decreased. And just remember you don't have to be the best, just take your time learning and go at your own pace.

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Re: Risk vs reward... learning and progression at 40

Postby knotwindy » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:36 pm

It’s not about your age. We have folks here that are at the same level as you still pushing the learning curve at over 63 years of age. So you are just a puppy. How healthy do you feel and if you get injured how many other family members will suffer the consequences. If you HAVE to work to support people you have to back it down a bit but if not and you are ok with recovery time, send it!

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Re: Risk vs reward... learning and progression at 40

Postby FLandOBX » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:53 pm

Age is a meaningless number unless you let your mental perception hold you back. With kiting, you can progress well into your 60's (and probably 70's) if you are able to move beyond the widely held paradigm that numeric age is a limiting factor. You also will have to stay physically fit and flexible, so continue to work out, eat right, and stretch. Then, as others have said, do whatever you enjoy with your kiting. (Also, plantar fasciitis can be managed with stretching and night-time braces, and you can still ride straps, if you prefer.)

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Re: Risk vs reward... learning and progression at 40

Postby rynhardt » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:39 pm

I'm still a spring chicken at 42 and don't feel the need to dial back my progression at all.
I wakeboard and wakeskate when I'm not kiting and am still pushing.
As always, sh#t can happen anytime. Just make sure you're not kiting alone when you are pushing the limits back!

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Re: Risk vs reward... learning and progression at 40

Postby plummet » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:58 pm

FLandOBX wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:53 pm
Age is a meaningless number unless you let your mental perception hold you back. With kiting, you can progress well into your 60's (and probably 70's) if you are able to move beyond the widely held paradigm that numeric age is a limiting factor. You also will have to stay physically fit and flexible, so continue to work out, eat right, and stretch. Then, as others have said, do whatever you enjoy with your kiting. (Also, plantar fasciitis can be managed with stretching and night-time braces, and you can still ride straps, if you prefer.)
Age is not a meaningless number. The older you get the easier it is to become injured plus the more injuries you rack up over the years the more dysfunctional parts of your body you have to contend with. A young strong supple mid 20's guy can probably handle multiple megaloop high speed crashes without injury, where the 40+ guy is way more likely to be to have a server injury. There's a reason why most professional athletes are in there 20's. That's when the body is the strongest.

That said. You just have to perform your own risk assessment for your style of riding, skill level and acceptable injury rate and make a call. What injury are you prepared to withstand and reward do you get out of the risky stuff?
For me, I'm not a trickster so I don't delve into the trick side of the sport. But I do push my limits riding conditions that wont. I'm a storm rider and love a high wind sessions. Some of sessions are high risk. But for me its worth it. The joy I get from those days is fantastic.

Once yourve made your risk assessment and are pushing the envelope in what ever direction you want to go in. The next step is to back yourself and your skill level 100%. If you let the fear leak in, that's when the crashes and injuries occur.

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Re: Risk vs reward... learning and progression at 40

Postby DWX » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:15 pm

20, 40, 60, it’s just a number... as long as it’s consensual... kidding

The only thing that slows down as you get older is your recovery time.

But who said you have to get injured? Risk doesn’t mean injury. If you do everything slowly and methodically, you won’t get injured, at any age.

I hope our 16 year olds are as careful with their bodies as our pensioners. Please!

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lindseym
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Re: Risk vs reward... learning and progression at 40

Postby lindseym » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:32 pm

bmcfiv wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:56 pm
I have three basic questions.

1) What tricks / jumps / situations present the highest risk of injury?
2) If you are a 40 yr old beginner / intermediate, what tricks / etc present an unacceptable risk reward profile?
3) Is it worth moving to a full C kite?

I started 1.5 years ago and like everyone on this forum became immediately obsessed. I've lost 20 lbs, am eating healthy, working out, etc... all b/c I want to improve my KB skills. I have some basic tricks dialed in (rolls, flips, load and pop...) and am jumping close to 30 ft, and am currently working on backroll kiteloops, front rolls, dark slide and will always try to jump higher. One unique element is that i have planar fasciitis so I have to wear boots, which of course has resulted in one concussion and a double labrum tear in my shoulder, but no option to wear straps.

So the driver behind me asking this questions is where do I go from here? I have a LF Envy and am debating buying the Eleveight FS (full C) vs the RS (SLE), is a C too much? Do I continue to try and jump higher? Do I go for mega loops one day... or should I accept my age and just dial in the low risk tricks and be content with those.

Anyway, any middle age progression advice is much appreciated!!!!
This is a great question and something I've been thinking alot about lately, especially since I turned 44 a few weeks ago. You have to pay your dues with every trick and (for me at least) there's no skipping trial-and-error. This is why I stick with hooked-in, boosting tricks but do not throw mega-loops. That's not to say you cannot do that. Mirroring everything above, age is fairly irrelevant and you should go for whatever inspires you. Regarding your questions...

1) What tricks / jumps / situations present the highest risk of injury?
Attempting tricks in overpowered conditions is dangerous, especially if you are not used to the trick. You have to cultivate the ability to dump the power at the right time and keep the kite positioned exactly where you want it within the window. So, my "new trick" rules are as follows...Wind = 12 to 15kts (nothing over 15) / Water = at least thigh high / Kite = Big as possible (formally my 17m Roca but now a 15m Rebel). You also need the right approach. I try to break each trick down into incremental stages. So for example, I wanted to learn a double frontroll but was nervous about rotating and controlling the kite. So, I started by first working on getting used to rotating in the air while controlling the kite. I did this by jumping, kicking the board off, and then rotating (far away from people of course). Not only was this very entertaining for my friends on the beach, but it built control and confidence. This was the key, incrementally working on the trick as opposed to trying to nail it in powered conditions. I realize with boots its not possible but the take away is to approach each new trick with a series of incremental steps that progressively lead to mastery...all within light wind. Then, once you have it dialed in you can attempt the trick in more powered up conditions.

2) If you are a 40 yr old beginner / intermediate, what tricks / etc present an unacceptable risk reward profile?
I would love to mega-loop but this is something that (at this point in time) seems a bit too risky. As mentioned, I also only stick to hook-in stuff but try and push the boundaries of board-offs, surface tricks, and such. With the right approach and strategy, you can do just about anything...well, within reason of course.

3) Is it worth moving to a full C kite?
Its really up to you. C kites are fun but demo one first. The FS is a killer kite and is enough of a hybrid that it will also have some versatility. Personally, I like the RS more but both are outstanding kites. Ride them back to back and then make the call. Let this be the primary basis for your decision. Demo, demo, demo !! Try North, try newer LF, try Cabrinha. Demo, demo, and demo some more.



All that said, here are a few other recommendations that are a bit outside the box but good to keep in mind:
1) This sounds really weird but stick with me. If you want to prevent injury look deeper than the riding style of kite type and focus on your own mobility, diet, and time-to-recovery. In the most simple terms - Inflammation accelerates aging, aging increases the likelihood of injury, and it also increases the time to recovery. You want to reduce time to recovery. To do this I've tried to remove pro-inflammatory foods from my diet like pizza, desserts, soda, and all the other processed crap. I also try and reduce the amount of beef, chicken, and pork and substitute it with more plant-based food. You are probably doing this already (congrats on the weight loss btw :D ). All of this will not necessarily make you a better rider but I do believe over time it has a profound effect on aging and injury prevention.

2) As far as mobility, DO YOGA. I've been doing it an average of 3 to 4 times per week for about 6 years and its had a profound impact on my health ... beyond the injury prevention, I am waaay more chill at work. The key to yoga is consistency. Build it into your life, even if its just 10 minutes a day. For riding I will usually do about 10 to 15 minutes prior to a session and try to do the same after each session. You don't have to go to a gym or anything. I use the free app "Downward Dog" , its the best one I have found.

3) This is where people will think I'm nuts ---- Ice Baths ---- yep, I know... :rollgrin: . This stuff is trending right now but cold therapy has been around for centuries. For more info see this link - [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKgUE76udK4[/youtube]. It's not for everyone and is probably even potentially dangerous so check with your physician first and like everything I mentioned above, its an incremental process. You do not have to start with an ice bath. Simply start with 10 seconds of cold water at the end of the shower, then 20, then 30, and condition yourself to the point where you can tolerate a cool tub and so on. I use ice baths as a tool to increase recovery and reduce soreness. So, if I ride more than 4 or 5 hours I will make myself take one. Comfortable, no...effective, yes.

At any rate, hope this helps and keep us posted. Congrats on everything and keep feeding the addiction.
Lm

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Re: Risk vs reward... learning and progression at 40

Postby Eltreato » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:05 am

Lots of "age is just a number" talk on this thread. I'm a 41 year-old kiter who's been at it since his late 20s and I can confidently say it's not. I no longer unhook much because I don't see the point anymore and I don't feel like I have anything to prove. I've got a jacked knee from flat powered kiteloop landings, and tennis elbow from extended sessions, and shoulder issues from surf. While I've dialled my limits down, I'm not having any less fun and I'm not willing to cut a season short trying to impress the other middle age men on the beach. I basically feel like an achier wiser version of 28 year-old me. Now I'm focussing more on skim and foil riding and enjoying kiting more than ever. I still like getting out to send it on a twintip, but don't feel the need to throw in a powered kiteloop. As long as you're smart about it and aren't already plagued with injuries from a youth well spent I say go for the unhooked stuff if you're set on it, otherwise there's tons of hooked stuff to keep you busy with a lower risk of injuries. Advil is your friend and try to be from a country with good healthcare too, just in case.


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