Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Pulleys on kites

forum for kitesurfers


User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8196
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: Pulleys on kites

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:47 pm

jespin4845 wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:42 pm
I’ve tried a shit ton of kites, my favorite drifting kites have pulleys, usually faster turning kites have had pulleys

I love a good pulley-less Kite, but for me kites with pulleys do it better

Sure every once in a while I have to rinse them out in a cup of water and add silicone spray...oh well

When I was a beginner I had to wash the pulleys every session cause I was constantly getting kites wet and then going back to the sand they would get stuck with sand in them

Now I rarely get them wet so it’s once in a lie moon I wash the pulley out and lubricate it

So true, well said :thumb:

8) Peter

alford
Frequent Poster
Posts: 348
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:53 pm
Kiting since: 2010
Gear: all brands
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Pulleys on kites

Postby alford » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:03 am

iriejohn wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:32 pm
Interesting topic.

I had Rallys until recently which certainly have high bar pressure but I've always liked the direct feel you get from kites without pulleys (which I first experienced with a pulley-less Cabrinha Contra).

I now have Ozone Enduro V2's which have no pulleys. They have light bar pressure and also a huge wind range and you can instantly feel exactly what the kite is doing without the slight delay and sometimes slightly spongy feeling that pulleyed kites can have. I suspect that Ozone are doing something clever with their bridle design.

I will never go back to pulleyed kites.
iriejohn, great to hear you like your new enduros, what sizes have had a chance to try so far?

iriejohn
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 868
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:04 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: West Sussex
Gear: this 'n that
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: South coast, UK

Re: Pulleys on kites

Postby iriejohn » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:47 am

Have used 6/8/12. Not used the 10 yet, mostly used the 8 - it's been very windy and relatively warm here the last few weeks. Canopies are rock solid and I've used a surprisingly small amount of trim. Am pleasantly surprised by the stability and wind range of these 3 strut kites. Lighter bar pressure that what I'm used to but quickly adapted to. Really nice on a wave* because you can sheet out and the kite just sits there until you repower.

* max 5 ft so far.

Faxie
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:39 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Netherlands. Maasvlakte, Slufter, Scheveningen, Domburg, Rilland, Brouwersdam, Ouddorp, Binnenschelde, Vrouwenpolder, Oostvoorne, Rockanje, Grevelingen, Borssele.
Style: Freeride, freestyle, wave.
Gear: Switch Helium V1 18m Element V3 13m-7m V4 9m-5m Legacy V1 10m-14m Slingshot Fuel 2005
Switch MJComp V2 136x41.5 Firewire Hellrazor 6.1 timbertek Shinn Shinnster Nobile 555 125x38
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Pulleys on kites

Postby Faxie » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:09 pm

jespin4845 wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:42 pm
I’ve tried a shit ton of kites, my favorite drifting kites have pulleys, usually faster turning kites have had pulleys

I love a good pulley-less Kite, but for me kites with pulleys do it better

Sure every once in a while I have to rinse them out in a cup of water and add silicone spray...oh well

When I was a beginner I had to wash the pulleys every session cause I was constantly getting kites wet and then going back to the sand they would get stuck with sand in them

Now I rarely get them wet so it’s once in a lie moon I wash the pulley out and lubricate it
I've had exactly the opposite experience...

User avatar
mr_daruman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:33 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: Kaichu beach
Mibaru beach
Igei beach
Favorite Beaches: Le Morne, Mauritius
Famara, Lanzarote
Poe, New Caledonia
Style: My style
Gear: Switch
Ozone
Wainman Hawaii
Brand Affiliation: HBsurfkite, Jimmy Lewis
Location: Okinawa, Japan

Re: Pulleys on kites

Postby mr_daruman » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:50 pm

It seems that most riders who use a short bridle pulley-less kite usually wont go back to pulleys. I wonder if the opposite is true?
After riding a pulley-less bridle kite, does one really think"oh man I really need those 6 pulleys..." ???

If they are so superior, we might as well all have FOIL kites, since they jump higher, go upwind like crazy, have more floaty jumps, low end, and depower than everything else....And once your good youl never drop the kite anyways.
I think we dont all have foil kites because, well, they feel weird, dont work well some conditions, are a pain to maintain etc... just like pulleys.

By the way check again your pulleys, usually people just give a quick look and never even notice that they are not even spinning correctly and stuck.

User avatar
Kamikuza
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5475
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:49 am
Local Beach: Sabae Beach
Favorite Beaches: Ol' Stinky
Gear: This, that, the other

Re: Pulleys on kites

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:05 pm

mr_daruman wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:50 pm
It seems that most riders who use a short bridle pulley-less kite usually wont go back to pulleys. I wonder if the opposite is true?
After riding a pulley-less bridle kite, does one really think"oh man I really need those 6 pulleys..." ???

If they are so superior, we might as well all have FOIL kites, since they jump higher, go upwind like crazy, have more floaty jumps, low end, and depower than everything else....And once your good youl never drop the kite anyways.
I think we dont all have foil kites because, well, they feel weird, dont work well some conditions, are a pain to maintain etc... just like pulleys.

By the way check again your pulleys, usually people just give a quick look and never even notice that they are not even spinning correctly and stuck.
Yes. But I don't think "I need the pulleys", I just think "I prefer the way those other kites work". I'm happy to compromise a bit of responsiveness for better "feel".

I think this the same issue as "long" bridle lines -- more fashion than function, people going for what the pros use.

Check my pulleys on a semi regular basis. My old Cab ones are proving to be astoundingly resilient...I've stared using them on a Flysurfer now too :D

User avatar
alexeyga
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 12:41 pm
Kiting since: 2007
Favorite Beaches: Ocean shore!
Style: Freeride dongling
Gear: Any gear is good gear as long as it has nothing to do with EPIC!
Location: Montreal, Canada / NJ, USA

Re: Pulleys on kites

Postby alexeyga » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:20 pm

I had a quiver of C4-s a while back, these were really nice kites in first generations with an obvious con being a limited wind range. There were some sessions where I was constantly switching between 15m and 12m while my buddies were on 13-12m "regular" bow-kites all along without any hassle.

Then Ozone went south with these and I was looking to haul less kites - so I switched to something more mainstream with pulleys, went over different brands and models - and to be perfectly honest - I find these "saggy felling" and "lack of crispness" arguments to be somewhat of a horse piss.

My most used kite nowadays has 6 pulleys - please ask me if I'm lacking anything in terms of "direct feeling" and I'll be happy to report on how I know exactly when, where, how and what my kite is doing. My other kites have 4 pulleys each and I would make exactly the same comment about either.

I do admit that sand in these pulleys is a nuisance - but there's a price to pay for everything and this certainly isn't a deal breaker. I am also very curious about Enduro-s and planing to test some when such occasion arises.

User avatar
marlboroughman
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2720
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:12 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Style: Oldschool
Gear: Switch
Brand Affiliation: Make Kiting Great Again!
Location: CubaKiteLessons.com
Contact:

Re: Pulleys on kites

Postby marlboroughman » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:15 pm

I don't like pulleys because:

I don't like high bar pressure
I don't have use for pivotal turning kites

Practical pulley issues are secondary to me

For jumping I like the kites that don't fly way up wind. I like to send the kite just from 1 to just behind 12 for a jump so I am ready for looping or anything else from close to 12 position. For loops - axially turning kite, no questions except maybe to what degree.

For onshore wave, I like kites that sit back in the window and create smooth power in the turn. The kite gives me an extra burst of speed going down low energy wave and when I go straight downwind I want the kite that operates at small angles left and right. The kites designed for Hawaii that goes way the hell to one side and then the other via dead turn have no use in onshore.

No pulleys period.
Last edited by marlboroughman on Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jumptheshark
Rare Poster
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Pulleys on kites

Postby jumptheshark » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:45 pm

I find that confusing!

Thought in "general" pulleys will both decrease bar pressure and make for more axial turning.

Axial and pivot seem to mean different things to different people. There seems to be confusion on what pulleys do for bar pressure too. Most are saying pulleys make for less, yet you're say it makes for more.

Pivotal turn: as in around a pivot point like basketball player's pivot foot... turns around a wingtip and generates power, like a C kite. i.e. powerful loops

Axial turning: turns on its axis, as in rotates around the centre of the kite, like a rally and most flatter bridled kites. They produce less pull in the loop, but produce loads when flying straight.

Aren't most wave designed kites with thinner leading edges designed to sit forward to be better for onshore winds/waves? To better get DTL as well as back upwind.

The deeper sitting wave kites like wainman hawaii and first generations of BWS are the ones with fat LE and deep profiles that were more at home in the type of side on to side off conditions of the rare but really great wave spots.

BWS evolved to smaller LE to improve onshore wave/wind performance.

Maybe its just me, but my understanding seems almost opposite to what your post is saying ?!

I think I remember you liking switch nitro, which is not really a wave kite at all. Not sure which kites you are speaking of for waves, but I have followed wave kite progression and they were all deep little balls at the beginning and have evolved to sit more and more toward the edge but keep their original capacity to drift. All that evolution has been geared toward making them better for direction onshore winds. Or am I missing something?

User avatar
marlboroughman
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2720
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:12 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Style: Oldschool
Gear: Switch
Brand Affiliation: Make Kiting Great Again!
Location: CubaKiteLessons.com
Contact:

Re: Pulleys on kites

Postby marlboroughman » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:50 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:45 pm
I find that confusing!

Thought in "general" pulleys will both decrease bar pressure and make for more axial turning.
You got it completely wrong. Ckites turn axially via wings twisting and turning like rudders see the video posted here showing set bridle allowing the wing to twist. Five line kites are even better at turning axially.
jumptheshark wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:45 pm
Maybe its just me, but my understanding seems almost opposite to what your post is saying ?!
I ride Element in waves and yes you have everything opposite. If I was riding in Hawaii I would like upwind flying dead turning kite. First to get me back home and on the way out to send the kite the other way before I hit the peak and forget about it from that point on. In onshore conditions wind and waves coming from the same direction opposite is needed.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], fluidity and 25 guests

cron