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Have lei kites gotten any better in the last 6 years?

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BWD
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Re: Have lei kites gotten any better in the last 6 years?

Postby BWD » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:21 am

GraemeF wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:42 pm
In my daydreaming and pencil on back of serviette scribblings I've often pondered on a sort of twin skin foil lei hybrid, to give the foil platform more protection against wind sheer and shifts. Probably be a bit too expensive for mainstream use but could possibly find favour in race foiling.
I nearly ran over something like that in about 1999 or 2000 whilst windsurfing.
It didn’t seem to work really well.
All these years later I still think the 2 skin foil + bladder = too heavy/stiff to be a good foil kite & too slow/mushy to fly like an LEI.

A related idea that’s interesting to me is something like a single skin foil a la FS peak but with a thin bladder filling or partly filling (with drains) the pocket behind the LE to
let it relaunch from water. Perhaps that could be the way to make a good hybrid.
?

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Re: Have lei kites gotten any better in the last 6 years?

Postby grigorib » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:25 am

Better - just the fact that there are 13m and 15m lightwind kites now makes me believe that kites became more efficient
Better - there’s whole new class of freestyle foiling (like wave but much lighter) wings
Better - majority of brands use large inflation valves. All kites are single inflation point now
Better - majority of brands moved to push-away quick-release and above-the-bar depower

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Re: Have lei kites gotten any better in the last 6 years?

Postby joriws » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:28 am

BWD wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:21 am
A related idea that’s interesting to me is something like a single skin foil a la FS peak but with a thin bladder filling or partly filling (with drains) the pocket behind the LE to let it relaunch from water. Perhaps that could be the way to make a good hybrid.
?
Ain't than what Monjet's Ninox -kite is all about.. But instead of using plastic bladders it uses closed cell technology.

The single skin relaunch problem is not about LE or kite sinking but how to keep true wind getting between water and kite. Then how kite flies in reverse. And how not to create pocket for water to weight kite down.

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Re: Have lei kites gotten any better in the last 6 years?

Postby plummet » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:40 am

grigorib wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:25 am
Better - just the fact that there are 13m and 15m lightwind kites now makes me believe that kites became more efficient
Better - there’s whole new class of freestyle foiling (like wave but much lighter) wings
Better - majority of brands use large inflation valves. All kites are single inflation point now
Better - majority of brands moved to push-away quick-release and above-the-bar depower
Yep I agree with that. Add the better fabric and I guess we have and overall improvement. Nothing substantial. But small incremental changes for the better.

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Re: Have lei kites gotten any better in the last 6 years?

Postby Bille » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:00 pm

BWD wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:21 am
GraemeF wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:42 pm
In my daydreaming and pencil on back of serviette scribblings I've often pondered on a sort of twin skin foil lei hybrid, to give the foil platform more protection against wind sheer and shifts. Probably be a bit too expensive for mainstream use but could possibly find favour in race foiling.
I nearly ran over something like that in about 1999 or 2000 whilst windsurfing.
It didn’t seem to work really well.
All these years later I still think the 2 skin foil + bladder = too heavy/stiff to be a good foil kite & too slow/mushy to fly like an LEI.

A related idea that’s interesting to me is something like a single skin foil a la FS peak but with a thin bladder filling or partly filling (with drains) the pocket behind the LE to
let it relaunch from water. Perhaps that could be the way to make a good hybrid.
?
* Peter Lynn , made some good relaunch-able, closed-cell stops ,to keep air in the
bladders ,for up to 8 to 10min, when wet . My first water kite, was a 2003 Guerilla
13m and i could relaunch her if it didn't go over 9-min between cycles of wind.I don't
think Ya need drains, if you keep the water out, and air in the cells, to start with ?
And also, the less stuff Ya sew on the skins ; the lighter the kite gets. OH YEA --
and now it's not a single-skin ; so less aerodynamic drag.

** More efficient can also infer, that a 15m kite could keep up with a 10m, if
it had the correct airfoil, with low parasitic drag at speed. My near 16m (168sq/ft)
rigid wing HG has a VNE, (top speed in turbulence) of 52knots, (60mph) ; i've had
her rolling near 80mph, in smooth morning air before. Get where i'm going
with this ?

Bille

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Re: Have lei kites gotten any better in the last 6 years?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:31 pm

No

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Re: Have lei kites gotten any better in the last 6 years?

Postby Greenturtle » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:50 pm

Of course the last several years have brought on a whole slew of strutless/one strut kites to market. Arguably improving performance in certain ways...

And slightly off topic:

People saying kite design has basically reached a plateau? well, sort of true but not from a scientific standpoint, only what is actually being produced for sale. As with everything, improvements are always possible no matter what level has been currently achieved.
There is no doubt that major and broad improvements will show up eventually..Its just going to take more research that the brands dont want to pay for- as long as sales are okay.

On that note, with one of the major players in the industry essentially gone (best), its one less driving force in design competitiveness, and certainly price as well. I suppose there are new brands filling in, but they wont be truly established for some time...

I personally would like to see (much) lighter kites, that are also stronger. Imo this benefits all riding styles / all kite designs across the board, so no brainer.
Tall order? I bet the right materials to do this are already available, albeit expensive? for now

Further improvements in wind range would be great, but I wonder if brands limit how much of this based on the market, because obviously they want to sell more kites not less!

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Re: Have lei kites gotten any better in the last 6 years?

Postby Do-it » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:39 pm

I still ride 2011-2013 kites and have not demoed any kites that I thought out out performed mine. The only characteristics that have been improved are in the light wind department.

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abel
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Re: Have lei kites gotten any better in the last 6 years?

Postby abel » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:50 pm

Have cars gotten any better in the last 6 years? :wink:

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Re: Have lei kites gotten any better in the last 6 years?

Postby iriejohn » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:56 pm

Do-it wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:39 pm
I still ride 2011-2013 kites and have not demoed any kites that I thought out out performed mine. The only characteristics that have been improved are in the light wind department.
What are those 2011-2013 kites?


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