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On Shore Wave Kites

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Matteo V
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On Shore Wave Kites

Postby Matteo V » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:19 pm

Pretty big gap here in my knowledge base about onshore wave kite characteristics. I do lake on-shore wave (no more than 3ftwave, most of the time in less than 1ft of water), and on/side/side-on ocean wave kiting. I have very little off side-off ocean wave experience. And I use the same kite for all conditions. I use Best Kahoona's for all water conditions.

What are the specific characteristics that most kiters attribute to a good kite for each condition.

And, how were windsurfing sails different for side and on-shore conditions?

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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby sarc » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:52 pm

For onshore waves you need high depower and good turning even when depowered. Drift not so important because you are riding the wave downwind. Since onshore waves usually not very good waves you need a fun kite that can let you do many things. Freeride kites are good for onshore.

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marlboroughman
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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby marlboroughman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:26 pm

My definition of onshore is: wind and waves come from the same direction onshore at whatever angle. What is the difference? In onshore you ride the wave at different angles downwind. In offshore you ride the wave upwind. How the industry figured the same equipment would work for both? I don't know except I noticed all of them are based in Hawaii and they design equipment for themselves. Main differences are: In offshore you need the kite to sit forward and turn dead pivotly. In onshore you need the kite to sit back in the window and turn smoothly axially. Not completely axial like a Ckite, smoother so you don't get pulled off the board but some power is needed in onshore slower moving waves. In onshore power is needed on demand to be able to keep up with the wave and you can't have a kite shooting way the f*** upwind into a dead spot where you can't get any reaction out of it. Good drift is good for both but this is where similarities end.

Matteo V
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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby Matteo V » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:59 am

marlboroughman wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:26 pm
.....In onshore power is needed on demand to be able to keep up with the wave and you can't have a kite shooting way the f*** upwind into a dead spot where you can't get any reaction out of it. Good drift is good for both but this is where similarities end.
So how do the popular wave kites rate in your opinion in onshore winds

Best "Cabo"
Cabrinha "Drifter"
Slingshot "SST"
or any others you have experience with??

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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby plummet » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:32 am

Here's my take on waves and kites with different wind conditions.

First of all lets define wave riding as riding a wave down the line "DTL". You turn away from the upwind tack and veer down/cross wind to follow the peeling wave as close as possible to the impact zone/pocket.

Direct Onshore conditions. Typically are terrible for DTL wave riding. The onshore wind turns the waves to mush. There's isn't usually a defined peeling section. Because you are forced to run directly at the kite you a limited to how many turns you can do before you out run the kites drift. personally looping works best for me in direct onshore conditions. My kite of choice? would be the most drifting, looping kiting you can find. However I typically don't wave ride In these conditions because its shithouse for wave riding. I grab a mid to high aspect kite and boost of the chop.

Cross and cross on: This is were most DTL wave riding takes place. You need a good drifting wave dedicated kite to take advantage of the waves whilst running broad reach to the wind. Its worth noting that there's generally 2 types of riders. Those who like to park and drift there kites and those that like to actively fly the kites whilst riding dtl. For the active flyers kite turning speed is primary, for the drifters kite drift is primary,

Cross off: This is the best wing angle for wave riding. Why? The wind is hitting the face on an angle from the front. It holds the wave up and doesn't crumble the face like on an onshore day. Cross off is way cleaner nicer to ride. Also when you turn down the line you are now running cross shore. The best kite here is no longer a wave dedicated drifting kite. Why? you no loner need high drifting performance. Now you need better upwind performance to be able to keep up with the wave when tacking upwind on the swell to get to the impact zone. A mid aspect kite is better in these conditions because it has better upwind that the wave dedicated kite and still has decent enough drift for DTL. However since cross off is uncommon most wave riders spec their kites for cross on conditions and use the kites they have when cross of comes around.

Lastly some guys like to ride up there line. This is not turning down/cross wind to ride the peeling face. This is continueing upwind in cross on,cross, cross off conditions and riding the peeling face upwind. This is non traditional wave riding. In this instance a kite with good upwind is superior to wave kite with good drift. This is because the higher aspect good upwind kite can point higher in the wind which allows for a better upwind wave ride.

What advantage does a wind surfer have? he/she can flag there sail into the wind and ride directly upwind or downwind in onshore and cross shore conditions. However there are typically not as nibble, nor can that take advantage of light wind conditions.

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marlboroughman
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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby marlboroughman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:24 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:59 am


So how do the popular wave kites rate in your opinion in onshore winds

Best "Cabo"
Cabrinha "Drifter"
Slingshot "SST"
or any others you have experience with??
I had a Cabo before I got E4 and then E5, probably 2014. It was sitting back nicely for onshore with smooth power in the turns. Unfortunately it was pulley bridle which allowed too much lift of the nose and thus back stalling with bar pulled. I was thinking to put a stopper restricting pulley travel but I "Switched" instead.
I don't see anything else on the market today.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:47 pm

I have a totally different opinion and experience than some in this thread...

Namely that in onshore you need a kite that flies further forward, turns on a dime easily and depowered, and loads of depower.

Totally opposite to the "deep sitting" grunty kites like the Kahoona which is not good for onshore waves IMO.

If fully side or side-offshore, you can park the kite and ride ("surf") - thus here the Kahoona or Wainmans or similar "thick" deep sitting grunty kites can work well - but NOT in onshore.

In more onshore you want a kite that can be flicked around easy with one hand back and fourth (most kites can though), and fly forward so depowering and you can ride really high up into the wave without getting dragged off your board, for an unrestricted free cutback.

Drift is always good, but actually of less concern when more onshore and you ride aggressively with the kite low and back and fourth :naughty:

The other advantage of a kite that flies forward and can be backstalled, is that you can position it WHEREEVER you want in the window, pull in and fly it back deep, or push out and let it fly far forward for a free cutback - it is a win win when you know how to fly a kite :thumb:
Whereas the deep sitting more grunty kites only got one gear unfortunately, easy for side-offshore park and ride, but not good for a dynamic ride in side-onshore, and powerspike on demand does not exist :cry:

8) Peter

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marlboroughman
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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby marlboroughman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:59 pm

I don't know what this guy is talking about. It's Chinese to me.

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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby Da Yoda » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:04 pm

marlboroughman wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:24 pm
I had a Cabo before I got E4 and then E5, probably 2014.
I don't see anything else on the market today.
Have you got a chance to fly RRD's Religion MK8? It looks very similar to the Switch E5.
http://www.robertoriccidesigns.com/equi ... igion-mk8/

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Eduardo
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Re: On Shore Wave Kites

Postby Eduardo » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:44 am

If you are in side shore waves or side off, the kite is parked and drifting downwind. Cabrinha Drifter is a great example of such a kite.

If the wind has some on shore to it, you are forced to move the kite. Quick pivot turning without big pull is a big help. Naish Pivot is a great example.

Direct on shore, you are not really wave riding in my view (as Plummet said - define wave riding!) In these conditions, you are playing in waves. Here, any all around kite is fine, including Naish Pivot.


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