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Beginner kites with the best safety systems?

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jeromeL
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Re: Beginner kites with the best safety systems?

Postby jeromeL » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:37 am

GJibb wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:18 am
slightly off original topic but you can watch any BRM video and notice each user will pull the center lines and they can easily reach the bar.
maybe some people just dont know how to make full use their equipment and consider that a downfall of the brand...
its pretty simply just a kite connected to a bar with lines not some complicated contraption
Lol yes off topic but here is video on what to do when bar isn't designed for short arm, it's kind of sketchy and not safe unless wind is super steady....
phpBB [video]


Anyway off topic and don't recommend using that technique.

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Re: Beginner kites with the best safety systems?

Postby Cab Driver » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:14 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:43 pm
diogovilla wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:28 pm
For the reasons below, I believe the Cloud Connection System to be the safest of all:

1) Option to fully disconnect with 01 step only.
2) One single front line system.
3) More depower, because the bar is closer to the body ( Does any other system has 72cm of travel to sheet in/out?)
Unless the OP's girlfriend has exceptionally long arms the Cloud Connection is absolutely not suitable!
stofferholm wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:03 pm
Hope someone can help me.

I'm trying to find the best and safest beginner kite for my girlfriend.

Which ones can you recommend that flags on only one line (single frontline or 5th line) ?

Take care
For example, better to use a SS Sentinel bar with a rope slider and SS Talon QR to bring everything closer to her.
While I agree with your comments on the cloud system, and I believe the cloud system needs to be under tension to release which would not be awesome (someone can clarify), but I would never recommend a rope slider system to a beginner for a myriad of reasons not limited to the addition of one extra important moving part on the control system, and bare line with a pulley close to the QR.

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Re: Beginner kites with the best safety systems?

Postby iriejohn » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:46 pm

Cab Driver wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:14 pm
While I agree with your comments on the cloud system, and I believe the cloud system needs to be under tension to release which would not be awesome (someone can clarify), but I would never recommend a rope slider system to a beginner for a myriad of reasons not limited to the addition of one extra important moving part on the control system, and bare line with a pulley close to the QR.
I guess it's a tradeoff between the two with the fixed point perhaps being easier to learn with vs the rope bringing the bar closer to the body.

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Re: Beginner kites with the best safety systems?

Postby Cab Driver » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:44 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:46 pm
Cab Driver wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:14 pm
While I agree with your comments on the cloud system, and I believe the cloud system needs to be under tension to release which would not be awesome (someone can clarify), but I would never recommend a rope slider system to a beginner for a myriad of reasons not limited to the addition of one extra important moving part on the control system, and bare line with a pulley close to the QR.
I guess it's a tradeoff between the two with the fixed point perhaps being easier to learn with vs the rope bringing the bar closer to the body.
Or one could also use a smaller harness loop or a system like Fireball that is already about 8cm closer to the body without any tradeoff.

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Re: Beginner kites with the best safety systems?

Postby iriejohn » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:46 pm

Cab Driver wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:44 pm
iriejohn wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:46 pm
Cab Driver wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:14 pm
While I agree with your comments on the cloud system, and I believe the cloud system needs to be under tension to release which would not be awesome (someone can clarify), but I would never recommend a rope slider system to a beginner for a myriad of reasons not limited to the addition of one extra important moving part on the control system, and bare line with a pulley close to the QR.
I guess it's a tradeoff between the two with the fixed point perhaps being easier to learn with vs the rope bringing the bar closer to the body.
Or one could also use a smaller harness loop or a system like Fireball that is already about 8cm closer to the body without any tradeoff.
The Fireball brings the bar "about 8cm closer to the body" than what?

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Re: Beginner kites with the best safety systems?

Postby rynhardt » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:54 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:46 pm
Cab Driver wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:44 pm
iriejohn wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:46 pm


I guess it's a tradeoff between the two with the fixed point perhaps being easier to learn with vs the rope bringing the bar closer to the body.
Or one could also use a smaller harness loop or a system like Fireball that is already about 8cm closer to the body without any tradeoff.
The Fireball brings the bar "about 8cm closer to the body" than what?
Good point! The entire Fireball assembly is longer than some some CL setups with the spreader bar hook included.

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Re: Beginner kites with the best safety systems?

Postby knotwindy » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:52 am

Grind off the hook and weld a small half ring on the bar. Then remove the lower part of the Fireball(the ball part) and hook directly to the ring. Make the ring whatever size you want.

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Re: Beginner kites with the best safety systems?

Postby Hpr » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:51 am

I don’t think a trimless system (like BRM) is ideal in some conditions. If you kite somewhere where the wind might go from 20 to 30 knots during the session, you won’t be able to adjust the bar position (by trimming) and will need to ride with the bar further out and your arms straighter. I’ve never used a trimless bar so maybe I understand it wrong. But I have used bars with very little trim adjustment and didn’t like at all how I had to have the bar at different (uncomfortable) positions when the wind changed and I ran out of trim.

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Re: Beginner kites with the best safety systems?

Postby rynhardt » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:21 am

Hpr wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:51 am
I don’t think a trimless system (like BRM) is ideal in some conditions. If you kite somewhere where the wind might go from 20 to 30 knots during the session, you won’t be able to adjust the bar position (by trimming) and will need to ride with the bar further out and your arms straighter. I’ve never used a trimless bar so maybe I understand it wrong. But I have used bars with very little trim adjustment and didn’t like at all how I had to have the bar at different (uncomfortable) positions when the wind changed and I ran out of trim.
Depends very much on the kite. The BRM kites typically have a very short trim range (I believe this was one of the design goals). Which is one of the reasons it takes a while to adjust to the kite.
Because of the this, a trim system is largely redundant.
The additional throw is there to allow a huge amount of depower. Because you can pretty much depower the kite completely by simply letting go of the bar, you really only ever need to release to one line in exceptional circumstances.

The C2 17 is my favourite kite for teaching friends and relatives. You can practise in 10kn, it reacts slowly and if you get flustered you just let go of the bar.

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Re: Beginner kites with the best safety systems?

Postby Cab Driver » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:30 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:46 pm
Cab Driver wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:44 pm
iriejohn wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:46 pm


I guess it's a tradeoff between the two with the fixed point perhaps being easier to learn with vs the rope bringing the bar closer to the body.
Or one could also use a smaller harness loop or a system like Fireball that is already about 8cm closer to the body without any tradeoff.
The Fireball brings the bar "about 8cm closer to the body" than what?
versus a standard loop system and a standard spreader bar.


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