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choosing twin tip size you give more importance to your weight or how much you are overpowered or underpowered?

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matth
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Re: choosing twin tip SIZE you give more importance to your weight or how much you are overpowered or underpowered?

Postby matth » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:06 pm

TheJoe wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:24 pm
Board is by weight. Kite boarders have this really screwed up in the thought process. The only way I would recommend a smaller board vs your weight is if you like doing board offs. In this instance your probably riding a larger kite for longer hang time and it's easier to toss the board around. A lot of people get boards that are too small and have to struggle with lighter wind. I ride a 143 and it does not matter if the wind is cranking or light but that is the size for my weight.
I ride my 137x44 monk 90% of the time. Works great in all conditions. I do have a 132 x40 that I use if its nuking.
But if I could only have one TT, I would much rather have one that is a little big than to small.

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foam-n-fibre
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Re: choosing twin tip SIZE you give more importance to your weight or how much you are overpowered or underpowered?

Postby foam-n-fibre » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:20 am

TheJoe wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:24 pm
Board is by weight. Kite boarders have this really screwed up in the thought process. The only way I would recommend a smaller board vs your weight is if you like doing board offs. In this instance your probably riding a larger kite for longer hang time and it's easier to toss the board around. A lot of people get boards that are too small and have to struggle with lighter wind. I ride a 143 and it does not matter if the wind is cranking or light but that is the size for my weight.
If you are going to answer this question in a meaningful way, you should specify board width too. Board width matters more than board length. A few cm of board width adds way more surface area and planing ability then a few cm of board length.

If your conditions vary, then the way you ride will probably vary too. One board will not do it all. As the most basic example, being powered on a more narrow board is great for holding lots of power and boosting high. But on a light wind day that narrow board sucks. Then again, you could just rig a much smaller kite and ride a bigger/wider board all the time, but I think most would agree that's not as fun.

Peter

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Re: choosing twin tip size you give more importance to your weight or how much you are overpowered or underpowered?

Postby Jbrook » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:29 am

I find I hold my edge when wind is strong way better on a 39 wide board, can jump way higher. I agree with last 2 posts great point and better expalined than me.

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Re: choosing twin tip SIZE you give more importance to your weight or how much you are overpowered or underpowered?

Postby TheJoe » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:09 am

foam-n-fibre wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:20 am
TheJoe wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:24 pm
Board is by weight. Kite boarders have this really screwed up in the thought process. The only way I would recommend a smaller board vs your weight is if you like doing board offs. In this instance your probably riding a larger kite for longer hang time and it's easier to toss the board around. A lot of people get boards that are too small and have to struggle with lighter wind. I ride a 143 and it does not matter if the wind is cranking or light but that is the size for my weight.
If you are going to answer this question in a meaningful way, you should specify board width too. Board width matters more than board length. A few cm of board width adds way more surface area and planing ability then a few cm of board length.

If your conditions vary, then the way you ride will probably vary too. One board will not do it all. As the most basic example, being powered on a more narrow board is great for holding lots of power and boosting high. But on a light wind day that narrow board sucks. Then again, you could just rig a much smaller kite and ride a bigger/wider board all the time, but I think most would agree that's not as fun.

Peter
Width will only do so much and it does have it's trade offs. But yes a 1cm of width is better for planing that 1cm of length. The problem with going too wide is it takes more leverage to dig the rails in when edging. The days of super narrow boards are long gone in kiting and they basically all run practicly the same width to length withing a cm or 2. The only company that really goes wide that I know of is Shinn and they are reasonable and not too overly wide.

A board properly sized for your weight will cover pretty much all conditions you can come across from light wind to nuking winds. Board length will carry more speed into jumps and tricks, it will smooth out chop by gliding over it more than a shorter board, all so they make for a more stable landing board off of tricks and jumps.

Now I know my stance on this goes against what everyone has held as dogma for board size since the beginning of twin tips in this sport. There was a time when kites did not have a large wind range and yes you needed a small board to hold down one of them old death machine C-Kites. Thats not the case now. Kites have a huge wind range for their size and that goes for modern C-Kites as well. I can hold down a 10m kite in 35mph winds on a 143 just fine in flat water. I don't change my board for strong wind to hold a kite down I change the kite.

Now if we really want to get crazy in this discussion then we can throw in rocker line, flex, shape and channels. They all are important in how a board performs as well. But I would say this is what you should be looking for in your riding style and weight should be for your board size only.

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Re: choosing twin tip SIZE you give more importance to your weight or how much you are overpowered or underpowered?

Postby Archer77 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:00 pm

plummet wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:46 pm
Do you have choppy or flat water? do you like riding in waves? to you want upwind performance? do you want smooth through chop? do you want nice carving? do you want a sharp load and pop? do you want max jump height?
All these questions lead you to the type of board you should buy.
thank you all for the kind reply!

Plummet, Matteo V, edt, I understand what you mean, and I know all this multiples variables as I have learnt also here:

https://www.progression.me/blog/what-de ... kiteboard/

but at the moment I was trying to understand, if you have to choose on the exactly same model board(selected on all the spec up) speaking of a freeride twin tip, for the SIZE, you will give priority on the condition (over/under pw) or your weight? or maybe both equal... (make a particular case example if you prefer)

(ok I know too, that chop or flat water are making in any case a distinction them self)

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Re: choosing twin tip SIZE you give more importance to your weight or how much you are overpowered or underpowered?

Postby Matteo V » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:17 pm

Archer77 wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:00 pm

but at the moment I was trying to understand, if you have to choose on the exactly same model board(selected on all the spec up) speaking of a freeride twin tip, for the SIZE, you will give priority on the condition (over/under pw) or your weight? or maybe both equal... (make a particular case example if you prefer)

(ok I know too, that chop or flat water are making in any case a distinction them self)
Your stated variables make it into a calculus problem where you wind up with multiple answers along a given line. Simple grade school mathematics is the only way you will find a definitive answer.

For clarity when I state "conditions", I mean gusty/dirty/updrafty and/or big lulls in wind speed. Or "conditions" can relate to the surface conditions where you are riding (chop, swell, flat, waves). Under or over powered would refer to your "state of being powered, whether under or over. "Conditions" are unchangeable for a given location. "Under or over powered" is your choice - or rather what kite size you pick.

Wind consistency is the first variable you solve for. I kite in un-kitable winds, to ocean clean and steady, to nasty ocean winds with mountain effect turbulence (Oregon coast) at certain angles - given that I travel for wind and also do lots of inland kiting. So some may not have experienced geographical variables to give advice on this. But this determines kite and board selection for most riders, even if they are just in a good clean wind area and do not have to worry about it. So some skip this first step.

The next thing you solve for is rider weight vs wind conditions. If you ride in a fluky wind area you upsize from your recommended size.

The next thing is you solve for is rider skill level regardless of the wind conditions. If you are skilled and can beat at least 50% of the other riders up-wind when underpowered, go with the smaller board size.

The next thing is if upwind is more important to you. If you like to get upwind quicker so you can do more boosting (where you lose upwind), go with a bigger goard.

The next thing is water conditions. If your main kiting location has "current in the same direciton as wind", then still go with a bigger board even if you are highly skilled. Or if you are in an area where current opposes wind, then go with a smaller board even if you are less skilled


The thing you DO NOT solve for is kite size. You have multiple kites of different sizes for various wind speeds. And you can up-size the kite to make up for not enough board area. BUT YOU STILL MUST HAVE A BIGGER BOARD FOR LESS CONSISTENT WINDS!


My take on your question is that you are trying to have only 1 twin-tip. This is almost impossible if you kite in many different conditions at various locations. You can have only one TT if you only kite in one location with pretty invariable conditions. Some Gorge riders get away with this. But there are not many locations with lots of wind days in a narrow range like the Gorge.

You need 2 TT's at a minimum if you kite different locations, or, if you kite in one location with a wide range of winds and conditions. Once you have 2 TT's, then you can assess the bigger kite vs bigger board.

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Re: choosing twin tip size you give more importance to your weight or how much you are overpowered or underpowered?

Postby dylan* » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:22 pm

Plummet has the convenience of having nuking wind all the time, so his opinion is very different from many people's where we have to have gear to suit a variety of conditions. As the wind increases you can get away with a lot more since your gear just has more range in general.

Your weight will always determine your starting place for a board, but yes it totally depends on what kind of wind range you expect out of it -- not necessarily the actual windspeed, but how much power you have in your kite. If you like to ride very powered on your kites, you can ride a smaller board so that it's easier to edge against, and you can hold onto a bigger kite easier. If you like to ride the smallest kite possible, you will want a board that is very efficient (for example, big, flat, large fins, ...). You can get away with having less kites if you have more boards, the same way you can get away with having one board if you have more kites.

Just as a small example: at my spot the wind is very often around 10-12 knots (I'm about 65kg). I can ride this wind with either my 12m + huge door-style board, or a 17m + my regular twintip. In 18 knots I can ride my 10m with my surfboard, or I can take my 12m up to about 25 knots with my small twintip for some big air.

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Re: choosing twin tip size you give more importance to your weight or how much you are overpowered or underpowered?

Postby PullStrings » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:22 pm

Extrapolate from Toby's set-up
130 'ish long...38' ish wide..weighs about 95kg...18sqm kite...warmish 18-25++ knots wind...flat water lagoon
His favorite gear
His only gear
No need to join a gym
Best workout ever
You have to ride what works for you to have the most fun
Every minutes count on the water

Archer77
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Re: choosing twin tip size you give more importance to your weight or how much you are overpowered or underpowered?

Postby Archer77 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:56 pm

yes, probably is almost completely a taste matter about how to approach the specific situation

thank you for the examples of the possible situation!

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Re: choosing twin tip size you give more importance to your weight or how much you are overpowered or underpowered?

Postby plummet » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:24 am

dylan* wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:22 pm
Plummet has the convenience of having nuking wind all the time, so his opinion is very different from many people's where we have to have gear to suit a variety of conditions.
haha,,, i wish i had nuking winds all the time! i wouldnt have built a hydrofoil if that were true.

But i do get my fair share of nuking winds.


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