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Trace errors compared to Woo

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downunder
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Re: Trace errors compared to Woo

Postby downunder » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:02 pm

andylc wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:37 am
I think we get the point kiterocky.

You may want to think about buying a course in English language so you can think of some other things to say....
^
So, you are more vocative, with better english skills and saying to others to stfu on German site?
This is a German site, at the end of the day u know...
Being more vocative does not give u rights to tell others what to, or not to do.

I would leave that to a moderator. Again, this is a moderated site, like it or not.

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Re: Trace errors compared to Woo

Postby andylc » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:26 pm

Maybe I should suggest a course in...errr...variety?? I was simply referring to the fact that he has told us somewhat too many times that they are a toy. I was not referring to his grammar although apologies if you thought that! I did not know it was / is a German site - I do now...

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Re: Trace errors compared to Woo

Postby kiterocky » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:02 pm

I know u need a toy for your ego...but i can write what i want...this is a free world and u can buy hundreds of toys if u like...but still a toy..hope your business with woo is good😀 soon people wake up sell them more as possible now....good luck

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Re: Trace errors compared to Woo

Postby andylc » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:11 pm

I know you can - it’s just a bit boring that’s all! I don’t even own a Woo...and all the things we play with in our free time are toys by the way - that’s why they are fun!

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Re: Trace errors compared to Woo

Postby CaliRider » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:25 pm

While grabbing my coffee this morning in the south bay i met a guy Geoff that works for Intel and knew all about sensers for kitesurfing. he said they did some testing of all the devices and trace ranked the worst in jump heights, pique was better but not by much, woo was pretty good but its jump heights were always high (he laughed at the woo records, said those guys are nowhere near as high as woo says they are!) and xenser was the most accurate but they don't seem to make their unit anymore. i asked how they tested and he said they did some test where all the units were on the same object and they 'jumped' it and it had some other measurement device on it that he said was like $25k (!!!). This dude was freakin' smart! He was on the team that did the X games for intel last year with snowboard data. He said the trace guys aren't supporting their product anymore and the french guys are going to run out of money soon. Who's french? He also thought woo was about to be sued because their See Em (C M?) stole the 'jump alego' from the xensr guys. Sounds like a shitload of drama to me. I told him to make the testing data available. Love to see their stuff given this thread.

Wish I paid more attention in math class. lol

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Re: Trace errors compared to Woo

Postby joriws » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:34 am

deniska wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:04 am
Lets see how long (and how much) it would take you to design a woo/trace clone on your own...
As some stated you are buying the software, web service, brand, marketing, professionals, developers, chinese(?) factory workers, CEO, logistics and shop cost etc, not just hardware. And that is cost, then there is consumer imaginary "how much this would be costing" for people to pay (don't know the term in English pls help me), the generic kite-IMU price level which is about 200-250USD. So that is where companies price their products despite of their actual producing cost. Because people are willing to pay 200-250USD for device so there is no reason to price it to 150USD.

If 'obsolete' hardware is your problem not to begin with this proposal, google "ardupilot" and check IMU-hardware it supports and order one of them. (Ardupilot is open autopilot so it is accurate and good enough for aerial vehicles.)

http://ardupilot.org/dev/docs/supported ... ler-boards

Just picking random board for your project - PX4-FMU. Now you have the hardware so please create the software which accurately measures the kite jumps. I am starting my timer now and finish the timer when you publish Deniska-open-ardukitetracker code at Github.

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Re: Trace errors compared to Woo

Postby fluidity » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:16 am

joriws wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:34 am
Lets see how long (and how much) it would take you to design a woo/trace clone on your own...
<<cut>>
Just picking random board for your project - PX4-FMU. Now you have the hardware so please create the software which accurately measures the kite jumps. I am starting my timer now and finish the timer when you publish Deniska-open-ardukitetracker code at Github.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
That one missing the wootuth?

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Re: Trace errors compared to Woo

Postby fluidity » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:46 am

deniska wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:43 pm
<<cut>>
In kitesurfing, you would only need to measure 3-4 seconds each way, so with good accelerometer you can probably get it with cm precision...
Lots of factors to correct for and space for errors to creep in.
First, Woo or other device has to detect true 1G at sea level pointing down, at rest calibration. Then riding in chop, at long axis angle and cross board axis angle, Woo has to adapt calculations for starting angle, change in board angle through the air, vertical distance jumped and N/E/S/W distances jumped. Leaving water detected by reduction in vibration from noise of chop? By change from horizontal G-force changes to vertical axis G-forces detected after angular correction?
I'd be hunting for algorithms to feed the angular changes into to correct the rotated x,y and z accelerometer readings into readings referenced to true up and down, maybe even compass correct into regionalised coordinates to get a cheap track plotter. Once you correct for rotation the x,y and z accelerometer readings would make far more sense.
But... small differences like the read order of sensors can influence final accuracy. Thinking that you've rotated a degree that you haven't, over a 3 second period could make maybe a meter difference in your reported jump height?
Someone at Woo will be deciding trade-offs, battery life versus sampling frequency for example... trade offs like...4 times more battery life for taking only a third the sample frequency the device is capable of? These are all things that a designer has to take into account. Use a bigger battery, more samples and make the device heavier but more accurate? Or go flat out and last half a session? I suspect they are actually pretty low power anyway but the processor is probably using most of the power crunching numbers and waiting for bluetooth connection(I don't actually have one to know how they sync)

Early days...

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Re: Trace errors compared to Woo

Postby bmcfiv » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:17 pm

CaliRider wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:25 pm
While grabbing my coffee this morning in the south bay i met a guy Geoff that works for Intel and knew all about sensers for kitesurfing. he said they did some testing of all the devices and trace ranked the worst in jump heights, pique was better but not by much, woo was pretty good but its jump heights were always high (he laughed at the woo records, said those guys are nowhere near as high as woo says they are!) and xenser was the most accurate but they don't seem to make their unit anymore. i asked how they tested and he said they did some test where all the units were on the same object and they 'jumped' it and it had some other measurement device on it that he said was like $25k (!!!). This dude was freakin' smart! He was on the team that did the X games for intel last year with snowboard data. He said the trace guys aren't supporting their product anymore and the french guys are going to run out of money soon. Who's french? He also thought woo was about to be sued because their See Em (C M?) stole the 'jump alego' from the xensr guys. Sounds like a shitload of drama to me. I told him to make the testing data available. Love to see their stuff given this thread.

Wish I paid more attention in math class. lol
Wow, it would be great to see that data and a "proper" analysis. The other items' you mentioned have some serious implications, so assuming you are right, I'll try to summarize.

Overall
Early stage industry, small market, so expect compromises
It's a toy lol, not a pacemaker, enjoy it as a partial solution
Woo is the overall choice, Trace or a Woo with second GPS device (phone) best is you need location

Woo
Good accuracy
Solely focused on kiteboarding, software is great and social
Some purchase liability with pending Xensr lawsuit (questionable)

Trace
Poor jump accuracy
GPS integration solid
Software mediocre, social ok
"Not supporting product", is this kiteboarding or everything?
Looking at Facebook and other posts, it does seem to be quiet over there

PIQ
Poor jump accuracy
You can strap it to your hand and see how hard you can hit "kiterocky" in the face
Cool display that you can't really see
Going broke

Xensr
Unknown b/c of conflicting data
Best accuracy
Manufacturing issues / not selling anymore (new website suggests otherwise)
Looks like they reached for the moon with features, but probably didn't have funding to do properly, would love to see them succeed
What happened to Android watch integration?

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Re: Trace errors compared to Woo

Postby andylc » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:17 pm

....or Apple Watch + Xensr sessions, if you have one - gps + ??jump accuracy?? Have t tried it yet...!


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