downunder wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:14 am
^
Simple question, what is a jump for you? But I just told you, we, who are using super thin lines would be all dead? Would you really stop Nico (world Champ), before he jumped 10-15m on FS race lines in front of 500 people? Would you? Common, be real and ask yourself that question.
Ok. If I saw his lines were down to two strands, even with 200kg or more rear lines, I would make sure he knew that he was not safe to use those lines. I would not stop him with force, but I would try to stop him by convincing him. But that is only at an uncrowded beach where he could only hurt himself.
At my beach, local or destination, if he was launching in tight quarters with innocent beach goers or other kiters within 2.5 kiteline legnths, I would stop him with every means possible. If I did not, my beach would be banned. So there are the two answers to your questions that are logically consistent with my policy. Come to my beach and try me.
downunder wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:14 am
Coz FS is saying not for jumping that does not translate into not doing it. We passed that point long time ago. We pushing the barriers. We, who do not follow but create our rules. You follow. Not we. That's is the core of everything. This sport did not evolve around safety, but pushing the barriers.
This statement in bold is beyond reasoning. I almost can't even think of a way to tackle that one without an analogy. So here is my best shot. The country in which you live says you should drive on the proper side of the road. Can you drive on the other side and go against traffic? Well, yes, so long as there is no traffic and you do not get caught. So why don't you? Because if you do you are really f-----g up things for the other drivers out there. Just because you can do something, does not mean you should.
And you think you are leading? You are way behind the crowd on extremely small diameter lines. But more over, you don't need them, because you don't race. And the actual benefit to smaller or extremely small diameter lines is minuscule. I mean we are talking 1°-2° more upwind performance on a high resistance board (TT or surfboard) and likely a bit more with a low resistance board (hydrofoil, or ice kiting). The biggest problem with your idea is that you think you are gaining even a slight advantage in everyday riding, but you are not. The second biggest problem is that you think no one has done this before, or that everyone should be doing this. You are way out there on this. Again, not a personal attack, just a statement of your place with respect to experienced kiters and the general kiting population.
And so this sport did evolve with safety as do pretty much all sports. I would love to see your reasoning behind your position against that. To help you, here is some of my reasoning that kitesurfing evolved around safety.
1. Kitesurfing was first attempted by those who had kites that would sink. So in those early years, almost no one kitesurfed. Then the Legaignoux brothers invented the inflatable kite and it became safer to self rescue and get your gear back without ditching it out to sea. More people started to kite and push the limits given the numbers of participants and accessibility.
2. Safety releases were virtually non-existent at the beginning of kiteboarding so no one wanted to risk being connected to a kite they could not release under load when it got out of control. Then came the CL release and kiting became safer and more people started looking at kiting as an "almost as safe" alternative to windsurfing.
3. Then the bow kite was introduced that increased (eventually) the safety of handling of the kite, and the ability of the kite to handle a range of wind speeds. This was especially important as kiting was not feasible (no upwind capabilities) at inconsistent wind locations where windsurfing did work well. And so the safety innovation of the bow kite being able to handle a range or wind speeds marks when kiteboarding exploded into popularity.
Many more example exist, and kiteboarding's past is littered with bad ideas (safety mistakes) that have become footnotes in kiteboarding's history. I think you are onto one of those mistakes with thinking small diameter rear lines are for everyone. You will get beaches banned with that line of reasoning. I feel bad for those kiters that behave responsibly and follow manufactures recommendations. And let me throw this back at you, "Ffs don't try dumb experiments in close proximity to others on the beach!
downunder wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:14 am
We can't even agree on what the jump is? Funny....
I know what jump is in my books, ok.
The jump in my books is everything higher than I'm scared off. That constitutes a real jump. For me. Everything else is not a jump to be scared off. Because man, the line can break even if you don't jump. The line can break even if never ever used before. What is here not to understand? If you're putting a lot of faith in lines, I can assure you, the bladder might explode when you do scary jumps and lead you into your death.
This is the definition of "subjective". An subjective is ok for you, BUT YOU WANT OTHERS to nail the forces in the back lines for all kitesurfing circumstances down to a few kg??? No one would else would define a jump as "higher than I'm scared of". I will give you that may fit "bosting", but not jumping.
Let me help you with an objective definition of jumping. Honestly, I never thought I would be typing this out -
1. Chop-hop - leaving the surface of the water via popping (quickly stepping on the tail) the board or using a wave/wake as a ramp WITHOUT help from the kite. In this circumstance, the kite does not add significantly to the ultimate height gained over the water before coming back down.
2. Jump - Leaving the surface of the water with kite power as the primary or secondary (wave or wake can assist) source of upward pull.
In depth explanation of #2
Jumping is when the kite's upward force is greater than the force of gravity on the rider. Noticeable heights are achieved by the total upward force of the kite exceeding approximately 1.25 or more times the weight of the rider. This puts more load on the lines than just the riders weight as the upward force of the kite must be enough to accelerate the kiters weight upwards. This force of acceleration takes into account the amount of time the force is acting upon the rider. So for a given height, the speed at which it is achieved, affects the maximum force exerted by the kite (and thus the force exerted by the lines).
Not subjective, but full of (non mental) variables none the less.
downunder wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:14 am
Trust me on this, ok, the moment the industry makes ultra thin, non stretch and high load lines, some people will use it asap. Simple as that. Some people are using it now, we told you that, they told you that, but you are going on and on about safety. Your safety or what you perceive that is safe around you. The World is not spinning around you, fortunately. It comes again on you being an authority, which you're not. Not to me anyways.
No authority is given to anyone beyond the integrity of their argument.
For example; I can teach a parrot to say that "squak, the sky is blue, the sky is blue". The parrots statement is not invalid because it said by a parrot. Or would you argue that because it is only a parrot, you must dismiss the statement as false?
I never wanted to be "your authority". My only goal is to help you with the question you have asked. At this point, I am pretty sure I have failed, as have others. But that is ok. Very few people get things "right off the bat". You will likely learn in time.
downunder wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:14 am
Whow, and you didn't not know about bladder abrading? How about the Ozone strap on tips which we discussed many many times. I hope people will explain better, coz, you know, you're using English, which is not my first language, to convince everyone to your thinking on the German site. Don't tell you did not know Toby is German and this site is in Germany?
Yes, that is a kite brand/model specific issue. None of the kites I have ever owned, nor have I ever seen a kite have that issue. All the kites I have owned or seen have had the canopy deteriorate before any LE issues with the following exceptions:
1. Faulty sewing of the LE (not bladder) caused the LE to open up on 1 model of kite I briefly owned and the bladder explode out of it. All of these kites were recalled and the LE stitching was reinforced.
2. Valve glue of inferior quality was used causing the valves and strut connectors to peel away from the.
And your English is good. So much so that I was afraid to ask if it was your first language or not. Informing me of this has cleared up some syntax issues I have had with your posts.
So please ask again any questions you feel I have not answered to your satisfaction. But before you do, try to look up what "multiple variables" means and how not all questions have only one answer for every circumstance.