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Woo 1.0 vs 2.0 vs 3.0

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BudhaNl
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Re: Woo 1.0 vs 2.0 vs 3.0

Postby BudhaNl » Tue May 22, 2018 8:09 am

davedej wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:49 pm
More of the same here:

http://www.wetestkites.com/2018/05/21/w ... game-over/
(but maybe some more details involved)

Dave
We Test Kites
Hi Dave, well done, I really like the fact that you do actual statistical testing on the results and thus try to remove bias. Since you, or someone on your team, apparently has sound knowledge of that, I hope you will take into account the following feedback for an update of your results.

There are a number of possible biases: number of riders, number of sessions, location on the board of the WOOs, that you'd need to account for in order to make a statistically sound statement about Woo's accuracy between versions. And then there's different WOOs...

First, I'd like to know how many riders participated. It seems 1? In a follow-up, a larger number of riders would account for possible rider-related bias. You may set up a board and lend it to as many riders as possible to eliminate this factor. If you'd organize something like that on a day at Wijk or even Schellinkhout, you will get a huge session with a lot of data points. Best would be to do this at both places so you will have both a flat water spot and a wave spot. Second, of course, the more sessions the better. One session results can be skewed for whatever reason so more sessions will eliminate bias there.Third, the location on the board of the WOOs. It seems that this can impact the results so you would need to alternate the WOOs between locations in order to eliminate that. Fourth, and you rightly point that out already in your article, more WOOs are needed of all versions in order to eliminate their influence. Let alone the different software versions.

I know, this is much harder to achieve than a simple one-day test with some statistical analysis. But your statement "WOO: game over" is quite serious and with the current data you cannot claim that with any trustworthy backup. Some hotheads above are talking about class action suits against the company, which I find stupid, but in that light statements like this might entice others to stake claims against you.

COOP
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Re: Woo 1.0 vs 2.0 vs 3.0

Postby COOP » Tue May 22, 2018 12:58 pm

It's not rocket science to work out if the WOO 3 is anywhere near accurate. Kiting has always mislead you on how high you have jumped and WOO have made it even worse.
I've always thought it was a gimmick and kiting today with the WOO worshippers certainly hasn't changed my point of view.
In 16-17 flat water 12mt kites the WOO gang were getting 9+mts but in reality they were 4-5mt max jumps. I myself borrowed a board with the WOO and purposely did roughly 2mt jumps and it was telling me I had reached 5-6mts.
After the session, I pointed out to the guys that you honestly think you jumped the height of that flag pole (which is 9mts). Think about it and study it. It's a long way up and a bloody descent quality jump. The reply was.....Yeah of course!
Other guys just learning to jump are getting 6mts.......6 bloody mts.....BS. Maybe 2.5mts if they were lucky.
Great marketing by WOO on a absolute rubbish misleading device that has zero credibility.

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Re: Woo 1.0 vs 2.0 vs 3.0

Postby kiterocky » Tue May 22, 2018 3:50 pm

COOP wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 12:58 pm
It's not rocket science to work out if the WOO 3 is anywhere near accurate. Kiting has always mislead you on how high you have jumped and WOO have made it even worse.
I've always thought it was a gimmick and kiting today with the WOO worshippers certainly hasn't changed my point of view.
In 16-17 flat water 12mt kites the WOO gang were getting 9+mts but in reality they were 4-5mt max jumps. I myself borrowed a board with the WOO and purposely did roughly 2mt jumps and it was telling me I had reached 5-6mts.
After the session, I pointed out to the guys that you honestly think you jumped the height of that flag pole (which is 9mts). Think about it and study it. It's a long way up and a bloody descent quality jump. The reply was.....Yeah of course!
Other guys just learning to jump are getting 6mts.......6 bloody mts.....BS. Maybe 2.5mts if they were lucky.
Great marketing by WOO on a absolute rubbish misleading device that has zero credibility.
Exactly... :thumb:

trickcoach
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Re: Woo 1.0 vs 2.0 vs 3.0

Postby trickcoach » Wed May 23, 2018 4:48 am

I remember when I first started driving the speedometer on my car would be really far off the real speed and would underestimate it by a bunch ... now it's gps based and seems somewhat accurate...

Technology evolves and will with time make results of the woo and other devices more and more accurate ... I think it is somewhat encouraging to see that v1 vs v2 vs v3 results are "different" ... having equal results would in my opinion be more of an issue...

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Re: Woo 1.0 vs 2.0 vs 3.0

Postby kiterocky » Wed May 23, 2018 6:52 am

Without reality test maybe the v1 was the correct one...we Will never know...

COOP
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Re: Woo 1.0 vs 2.0 vs 3.0

Postby COOP » Wed May 23, 2018 10:49 am

kiterocky wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 6:52 am
Without reality test maybe the v1 was the correct one...we Will never know...
Agree. Seems as though the WOO has got more inaccurate with its later versions. GPS is not the best technology for height especially one made in a $10 Chinese sweat shop. From my observations in the last week with the WOO3 believers is that the device is roughly 50% inaccurate.
Will be interesting to see when the technology does get better and more accurate that WOO will go with it, as the believers will be shattered that their every day 10mt jumps :roll: turn in to 4-5mts :naughty:

Frank82
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Re: Woo 1.0 vs 2.0 vs 3.0

Postby Frank82 » Wed May 23, 2018 11:45 am

COOP wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 10:49 am
kiterocky wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 6:52 am
Without reality test maybe the v1 was the correct one...we Will never know...
Agree. Seems as though the WOO has got more inaccurate with its later versions. GPS is not the best technology for height especially one made in a $10 Chinese sweat shop. From my observations in the last week with the WOO3 believers is that the device is roughly 50% inaccurate.
Will be interesting to see when the technology does get better and more accurate that WOO will go with it, as the believers will be shattered that their every day 10mt jumps :roll: turn in to 4-5mts :naughty:
It doesn't use gps for height, it uses an accelerometer.

COOP
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Re: Woo 1.0 vs 2.0 vs 3.0

Postby COOP » Wed May 23, 2018 11:52 am

Roger that.........I stand corrected.

davedej
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Re: Woo 1.0 vs 2.0 vs 3.0

Postby davedej » Wed May 23, 2018 12:45 pm

A few comments;
The data from Evan (start post) is coming from jumps on a hydrofoil (seen the video from Leo of WOO this may be problematic).
Time stamps after the full hour is missing seconds data, which means tricky to link jumps.
Personally I think Evan's findings are not really different from ours.
As for who is how riding or if the placing of the WOO is critical for every millimeter (which I don't think so) is interesting for understanding why things deviate, but ideally this should be irrelevant (if WOO's are in the middle of the board as advised etc, we even made sure all buttons where facing one side). Jumps missed due to soft landing for example are understandable, but that is not the discussion here.
Our test has limited (17 jumps over 5m) data for the 2.0-3.0 versions, as every test has its limitations. Sadly we do have results we simply didn't expect after we tested them in 2015 (1.0 vs 1.0) with excellent results at the second test (first test had different software version, but still had a good correlation).
Dave
We Test Kites

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downunder
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Re: Woo 1.0 vs 2.0 vs 3.0

Postby downunder » Wed May 23, 2018 2:09 pm

deniska wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 3:18 pm
you dudes are funny..

yes.. throw a class action against a company with about 10 employees and see how much dow you gonna get back :-)
So are you pissed at woo for trying to fix and improve their product?
Keep in mind, they have never made any claims about the precision of the device.
I don't know why so many people assumed that it would have millimeter-grade precision.
From what I can tell, the precision of current version is on par or better than deriving the height from a phone snapshot of a jump or gopro footage.
That pretty much gives you bragging rights without the hassle of video setup, assistants and counting pixels on a crappy video where you appear as a few dots.
If that does not work for you, then just don't buy the damn thing.. wait for rocket science to advance.
That's is not a valid argument.

I'm still using Woo1, hence constantly cheated or misled. For me, it just tracks time on water, nothing more. No fun factor, thanks.

Remember, Woo was/is a Best branch if not mistaking.

Yanks are specifically known of suing everyone and anyone, which would not happen in the EU in million years.

Normally, the Class action is taken even for misleading customers, it does not need to be big money involved or even a big company.

The govmnt. Obsusman and the Customer Protection in Australia is pretty powerful especially when the customers are mislead.

Some other countries can only 'dream' of the system we have.

Nothing to do with Woo. Everything to do with misleading. Again and again, woo1 users are entitled for 'free' upgrade.

One needs to think of the mobile phone for example, when u buy it and it does not work in areas with a signal, do you just accept this as a 'feature' of the phone? Well, they did not say it's perfect, right?

Or you go and ask for free replacement? And if the new one has the same 'feature' would you dump the brand completely?

Be real to yorurself, and ask this question.

Sure it's fun device. So is the phone from above. Feeding egos is easy if u add fun factor...


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