Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

forum for kitesurfers


MutantWizard
Rare Poster
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 5:52 am
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Tablas
Style: Freeride, Big Air
Gear: North / CrazyFly
Brand Affiliation: None
Contact:

Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby MutantWizard » Sun May 13, 2018 7:36 pm

I have 8-9 bars. Couple of them are retired due to snapped lines. Others are looking like they probably need lines replaced. I would like to buy a couple rolls of lines. Probably about 1,000 ft total to repair the ones that need it and to have some left over for the others when the time comes. I am not too much concerned about performance but would like to make sure I get something that will resist abrasion and will not stretch too much over time so I can expect a few years out of them. I am looking at about 600 lb lines for both back and front lines.

A while back heard some good comments but also some bad comments about Q-PowerLine Pro lines but that might be outdated by now. I would appreciate any experience or advice members here have with these or a recommendation of any other lines you think would qualify according to my criteria.Thanks!

or6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:29 pm
Kiting since: 1998
Local Beach: Wijk aan zee, Zandmotor
Favorite Beaches: Muriwai NZ, El Medano Tenerife, la Ventana México, Hood River, Portland area, Vancouver Island, Wijk aan Zee, Moulay Bouzerktoun
Style: Waveriding, strictly strapless
Gear: RRD Religion 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9, Appletree Klokhouse Noseless 5'3"
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby or6 » Sun May 13, 2018 9:27 pm

Well, I have only used them for approximately 50 to 60 sessions, but I'm really impressed with my RRD 'stiff or rigid lines', or whatever they call them. They look as new, no fibers sticking out, still as rigid and white as they were when new.

They are expensive, though. Couldn't tell you about stretch, really, as I kite strapless only they don't get a lot of load.

Or6

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5046
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton ronix rpm ozone

Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby edt » Sun May 13, 2018 9:42 pm

In my humble opinion q-power liens are still the best lines you can buy. Even though they spec at 600 pounds and you can buy 1.75mm dyneema lines that spec at 800 pounds the q-powers usually feel stronger I guess the reason is that the covering prevents wear. Because you can't splice Q-power and only knot it the knotted part will not fit through a normal control bar safety system. What I do is rig 3 of the lines normal with q-power but for the line that runs through the q-power I only run it about 10 meters of q-power and the rest of the way I use 800 pound 12 strand line that I can splice. People that use q-power all the way through run the q-power through the swivel and after it is through the swivel run it all the way to the chicken loop. Then they make a figure 8 knot right before the swivel (where you usually switch from the center line to the elastic flag out short line). You can do it this way but I prefer running about 10 meters of normal 12 strand line so it fits through the safety system easier and if you run q-power the whole way you can't use elastic line. At the end of the q-power lines I always use pigtails because while the cover of q-power does well preventing abrasion it does wear out if you keep making lark's heads on it, and this prevents wear at the end of the line. As far as I know, q-power simply does not wear at all if used as kite line. You can use it for a decade. Other lines wear out, mostly from abrasion when they are on the ground, getting sand into the fibers and sometimes near the swivel where it bends. When I make new lines I buy mostly q-power and then a little bit of regular 12 strand 800 pound dyneema.

Matteo V
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: US, Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas/Utah/Oregon Coast
Favorite Beaches: Ft. Stevens, North coast of Oregon
Style: Just like school in summertime
Gear: Delta Kites and LF Kitefish QuadMod
Snowboard (Cambered and Rockered)
Foil kites on the snow
Brand Affiliation: NONE F--- the corporate world

Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby Matteo V » Sun May 13, 2018 9:54 pm

Naish and Ozone have always had great low stretch lines with a tight braid and are very resistant to wear.

North and Best lines (at least 2010-2014) were junk lines that pretty much immediatley showed wear even if you were not using them in a highly abrasive environment.

A tight braid with a waxy feel seems to be best.


But for cost and low stretch performance, I go with the Jerry Brown hollow braid spectra. This stuff splices great and has decent wear characteristics, though it is not "waxy" and somewhat a looser/flatter braid. But is no where as loose as some of the junk lines previously mentioned. I use 800lb for my fronts, and any other junk line (stock on any bar I get) for the rears. I also have some Marlow tight braided spectra kite line that I believe is 350kg, but still nice and thin for back lines. Here is a link for BHP tackle where you can get a really low price on the right sized spool (300yds is plenty for maintaining a few bars).

http://www.bhptackle.com/home.php?cat=46

Stretching and splicing is 50% of the issue with kite lines. You need to take your time stretching and stretch to within about 80% of the breaking strength. Then you need to take more time and let the lines relax. For fronts, let them relax for 15-20 minutes before making the final splices. Rears are better left for longer, but can be done in a pinch after a second handling and a 20 minute wait. - Again THIS WILL MAKE OR BREAK YOUR LINESET PROJECT! There is more to it than I am laying out, but I am not going to write a guide for you right now. And just for clarity, you need some mechanical advantage to properly stretch you lines. But be careful as the stored energy release of a snapped line can hurt you pretty bad.

Q-Power line is great, except for the terminations. If you knot, you must make a perfectly neat "figure 8" knot or you will easily break at that knot. If you machine sew sleeved loops, make sure you wet the line and the thread before sewing. Then go slow with the machine. If you don't follow that advice, you will cut individual strands in the Q-Power line and severely weaken the splice. Honestly, I abandoned my Q-Power line sets after a few breaks at the sewn sleeves, and then later at a less than perfect figure 8 knot.

MutantWizard wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 7:36 pm
A while back heard some good comments but also some bad comments about Q-PowerLine Pro lines but that might be outdated by now. I would appreciate any experience or advice members here have with these or a recommendation of any other lines you think would qualify according to my criteria.Thanks!
Q-power line has not changed and all the issues with it still exist and will always exist. It can't be spliced as it is not a braid. So knots or sewn loops become it's "Achilles heel".

iriejohn
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1189
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:04 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: West Sussex
Gear: this 'n that
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: South coast, UK

Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby iriejohn » Sun May 13, 2018 10:23 pm

Matteo V wrote: I also have some Marlow tight braided spectra kite line that I believe is 350kg, but still nice and thin for back lines.
AFAIK all Marlow kite line is Dyneema, not Spectra, and I guess you mean this?
Marlow Ropes wrote:Kiteline Race utilises Dyneema SK99 and is available in 1.3mm and 1.5mm diameter. While maintaining the breakload of 270kg on the 1.3mm and 360kg for the 1.5mm

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5046
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton ronix rpm ozone

Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby edt » Sun May 13, 2018 10:24 pm

Matteo if that's your only issue with it, the strongest knot you can make in q-power line is just to take some regular sleeving material pull it over the q-power and then knot from there. The reason it breaks is how tight the bend is. Additional sleeving will make it a lot stronger at the figure 8 knot. It's an extra step tho. Might be worth it to make another line set with q-power like this if you have extra laying around.

Matteo V
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: US, Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas/Utah/Oregon Coast
Favorite Beaches: Ft. Stevens, North coast of Oregon
Style: Just like school in summertime
Gear: Delta Kites and LF Kitefish QuadMod
Snowboard (Cambered and Rockered)
Foil kites on the snow
Brand Affiliation: NONE F--- the corporate world

Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby Matteo V » Sun May 13, 2018 10:40 pm

edt wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:24 pm
Matteo if that's your only issue with it, the strongest knot you can make in q-power line is just to take some regular sleeving material pull it over the q-power and then knot from there. The reason it breaks is how tight the bend is. Additional sleeving will make it a lot stronger at the figure 8 knot. It's an extra step tho. Might be worth it to make another line set with q-power like this if you have extra laying around.
I would only use it for rear lines, not fronts. There is some info from a guy that actually tested the stuff with knots. It broke at around half it's strength - at those knots.

And the most important thing in knot stress is to make sure your "figure 8" is neat. Additional sleeving bulks up the knots waaaayyyyy to much for me to consider using, though it does reduce some of the bending stress.

My Jerry Brown line set usage has just been so much more successful than the years I was using Q-power.

The Q-power I have laying around is extremely useful for making "on the fly pigtails". And honestly I have never had one of those break, but the attaching (larks head) loop is a completely different load transfer compared to a single line coming up through a "figure 8" knot.

Matteo V
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: US, Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas/Utah/Oregon Coast
Favorite Beaches: Ft. Stevens, North coast of Oregon
Style: Just like school in summertime
Gear: Delta Kites and LF Kitefish QuadMod
Snowboard (Cambered and Rockered)
Foil kites on the snow
Brand Affiliation: NONE F--- the corporate world

Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby Matteo V » Sun May 13, 2018 10:56 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:23 pm
Matteo V wrote: I also have some Marlow tight braided spectra kite line that I believe is 350kg, but still nice and thin for back lines.
AFAIK all Marlow kite line is Dyneema, not Spectra, and I guess you mean this?
Marlow Ropes wrote:Kiteline Race utilises Dyneema SK99 and is available in 1.3mm and 1.5mm diameter. While maintaining the breakload of 270kg on the 1.3mm and 360kg for the 1.5mm
Nope, this was the last version I got on closeout. Like SK90 or something? I don't remember exactly and don't care as I use it for the back lines. Wear resistance is not as good on my Marlow line as with Naish or Ozone lines. The braid seems looser and more fuzzy/mashy on the Marlow, , but much better than North or Best.

And thanks for correcting me on Dyneema vs Spectra. I hope I did not confuse anyone, though they are essentially the same material for our (kiters) consideration.

sarc
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1164
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby sarc » Mon May 14, 2018 3:30 am

Q-power with figure or 8 loops, used one line set for about 10 years, been dragged underwater, crashlanded kiteloops, yanked every which way, dragged over rocks and beach garbage, deathlooped... still looks like new. I'm 90kg. Q-power just will not die. But Q-power stretches a little, not a lot but noticeable. I used both the pro and regular, in different bars both good but the pro smaller diameter is worth the extra money.
I've snapped enough North front lines to steer me away from them for good.
Q-power is total overkill for back lines, so I use regular lineset for back (whatever I can scrounge: now running a set of old North and Cabrinha for backs in my bars). These lines are a liiiitle bit less spongy that Q-Power, just enough to be noticeable.
Jerry brown looks really good too, I will give it a try next time I make a bar. Soooo many less tangles without knots to make loops in your lines.

naishdude
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 899
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:14 am
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: Holland
Spain
Danemark
France
Favorite Beaches: everywhere at the seaside, where it is allowed to kite
Style: cruising& wave
Gear: Airush Sector 54 V5, Cypher5'8 active, compact 5'6, Compact5'5 active
Ozone reo V4 12 9 7 5
Brand Affiliation: none
Location: outer space

Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby naishdude » Mon May 14, 2018 7:41 am

http://www.infexion.nl/ is where I buy my lin e sets; no affiliation ...but good stuff


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 31 guests