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Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

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iriejohn
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Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby iriejohn » Tue May 15, 2018 9:49 pm

edt wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 6:59 pm
ps would love to hear a more in depth explanation about spectra vs dyneema matteo but of course that's for another topic. If you feel like starting one up I would definitely read it.
Matteo V wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 6:52 pm
For our purposes, the two names Dyneema and Spectra, are the same for how we are concerned.

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Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby atomic-chomik » Wed May 16, 2018 4:55 am

I have sets of Q-line with hundreds of days on them and they are still totally solid albieght a bit sun bleached. If you want durable, trustworthy line look no further. I have as well snapped all the other types of line out there, North specifically and that is why i switched to Q. No problems ever with the stuff.

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PugetSoundKiter
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Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby PugetSoundKiter » Wed May 16, 2018 9:43 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:49 pm
edt wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 6:59 pm
ps would love to hear a more in depth explanation about spectra vs dyneema matteo but of course that's for another topic. If you feel like starting one up I would definitely read it.

Article

Matteo V wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 9:54 pm
…But for cost and low stretch performance, I go with the Jerry Brown hollow braid spectra. This stuff splices great and has decent wear characteristics, though it is not "waxy" and somewhat a looser/flatter braid. But is no where as loose as some of the junk lines previously mentioned. I use 800lb for my fronts, and any other junk line (stock on any bar I get) for the rears…
:thumb:
Centers = 800# Jerry Brown center lines for durability
Rears = 500# Jerry Brown steering lines for less drag
DIY = custom lengths, extensions, repairs, replacements

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edt
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Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby edt » Wed May 16, 2018 10:17 pm

PugetSoundKiter wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:43 pm
ps would love to hear a more in depth explanation about spectra vs dyneema matteo but of course that's for another topic. If you feel like starting one up I would definitely read it.
Thanks for the link. I remember reading that article before.

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Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby dracop » Fri May 18, 2018 10:19 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 9:54 pm
Naish and Ozone have always had great low stretch lines with a tight braid and are very resistant to wear.

North and Best lines (at least 2010-2014) were junk lines that pretty much immediatley showed wear even if you were not using them in a highly abrasive environment.

A tight braid with a waxy feel seems to be best.


But for cost and low stretch performance, I go with the Jerry Brown hollow braid spectra. This stuff splices great and has decent wear characteristics, though it is not "waxy" and somewhat a looser/flatter braid. But is no where as loose as some of the junk lines previously mentioned. I use 800lb for my fronts, and any other junk line (stock on any bar I get) for the rears. I also have some Marlow tight braided spectra kite line that I believe is 350kg, but still nice and thin for back lines. Here is a link for BHP tackle where you can get a really low price on the right sized spool (300yds is plenty for maintaining a few bars).

http://www.bhptackle.com/home.php?cat=46

Stretching and splicing is 50% of the issue with kite lines. You need to take your time stretching and stretch to within about 80% of the breaking strength. Then you need to take more time and let the lines relax. For fronts, let them relax for 15-20 minutes before making the final splices. Rears are better left for longer, but can be done in a pinch after a second handling and a 20 minute wait. - Again THIS WILL MAKE OR BREAK YOUR LINESET PROJECT! There is more to it than I am laying out, but I am not going to write a guide for you right now. And just for clarity, you need some mechanical advantage to properly stretch you lines. But be careful as the stored energy release of a snapped line can hurt you pretty bad.

Q-Power line is great, except for the terminations. If you knot, you must make a perfectly neat "figure 8" knot or you will easily break at that knot. If you machine sew sleeved loops, make sure you wet the line and the thread before sewing. Then go slow with the machine. If you don't follow that advice, you will cut individual strands in the Q-Power line and severely weaken the splice. Honestly, I abandoned my Q-Power line sets after a few breaks at the sewn sleeves, and then later at a less than perfect figure 8 knot.

MutantWizard wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 7:36 pm
A while back heard some good comments but also some bad comments about Q-PowerLine Pro lines but that might be outdated by now. I would appreciate any experience or advice members here have with these or a recommendation of any other lines you think would qualify according to my criteria.Thanks!
Q-power line has not changed and all the issues with it still exist and will always exist. It can't be spliced as it is not a braid. So knots or sewn loops become it's "Achilles heel".
I am choking to death just reading this statement!

Naish has the lowest quality lines in the history of kiteboarding. I am convinced their manufacturer bought 1,000 containers of cheap line back in 2001 and they have been burning thru that stock ever since. Liros did a study of aftermarket lines (eg, actual lines on kite bars) and Naish was the lowest of the low. As a rider of a Naish Torch, I demolished 5 sets of lines by stretching and in some cases breaking them due to stress in just six months; finally I had custom lines created for my TOrchies. Years later my custom lines have not stretched at all.

Naish = Traish when it comes to lines.

Ozone lines stretch altho at a reasonable rate.

North used to be junk but nowadays are using 500 kg lines. It taken me a year but I finally stretched out the center lines on my Click Bar. Overall good lines for stock OEM imo.

Now this is all focused on STRETCH - Abrasion resistance is another animal. I baby my lines and dont get them sandy so abrasion is not a huge deal for me, stretch is (im a 240 lb Big Air guy who loves his Loops). Q Power is great for abrasion but needs a technical update to improve their stretch (weakj 600 lbs).

I strongly recommend researching any lines you buy - including looking at the actual line manufacturer instead of just the kite brand that is sticking its name on it. I am a huge fan of Liros and the lines I made from Liros DC-701 and DC-401 are the magic bomb imo. They do need to be waxed every six months though or abrasion will get to them (six mo of near daily usage). My North lines didnt start to wear/get abrasion until 12mo (better aftermarket processing treatment than applying cheap candle wax from walmart). Now they are on the same wax cycle as my Torch custom lines. Liros the manufacturer behind Core lines (the super fancy Core middle lines on their Sensor 2Pro are DC-401). Teufelburger is the manufacturer behind North lines. At this point both manufacturer of lines (liros and Teufel) are using SK-99 fiber core. Its 2018, if a manufacturer is still using line with SK-75 fiber technology, dump that crap - SK99 is WAAAAYYYY better than SK-75 for our sport.

I really like the treatment on Q Power in terms of abrasion, just wish they would update with newer fiber core technology to have better strength. If you have a low power application (eg, Foiling), stick with Q Power. For anything requiring lots of breaking strength/stretching resistance, go with Liros is my advice. Again, look THROUGH the kite brands to the actual manufacturers of the lines.

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omg
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Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby omg » Sat May 19, 2018 6:40 am

Core Pro bar's lines are way to go. I have one Pro bar and have been using it over 1-year without any issues and I spin quite a bit with surfboard and still no wear in the lines. The bar has mid-Y, but you can buy spare lines and extensions to suit your needs. These lines/bar was tested with many other manufacturers' bars/lines and Core came out great. I am not paid by Core, just wanted to share what's been working for me.

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Re: Hard Wearing Low Stretch Lines

Postby Matteo V » Sat May 19, 2018 5:05 pm

dracop wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 10:19 pm
I am choking to death just reading this statement!
Read more slowly and your should be ok.


My evaluation of Naish lines is from the 2008-2014 era and I never experienced or saw any one experience any issues with those year Naish lines. And as opposed to your experience, we DO kite from beaches with very abrasive sand. Most of my good impression of Naish lines of that vintage have to do with the tight braid not allowing in sand or finer particles, thus making the common wear points hold up much longer than looser braids. If you can provide a link to your reference to Naish lines having stretch/breakage issues, I would readily admit that my sample size is too small to refute your claims entirely. And just for honesty, I do not own any Naish kites now, nor intend to purchase any in the future - I have no brand loyalty to them or any "Name".

dracop wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 10:19 pm
...It taken me a year but I finally stretched out the center lines on my Click Bar. Overall good lines for stock OEM imo.
What do you mean - did one front line go out of tune? Or does it appear that the fronts stretched (actually the rears shrinking)? And 500kg sounds like overkill as I get by with 363kg home made Jerry Brown hollow braid fishing line and it is enough of an improvement over stock 300kg lines that I do not think I need to get any bigger at 225lb body weight plus gear. That said, my line set construction methods are heavily focused on stretching at high loads for a long period (relatively) time compared to most other home builders of line sets. Though, I do believe my stretching is more rigorous than most manufactures.

dracop wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 10:19 pm
Now this is all focused on STRETCH - Abrasion resistance is another animal. I baby my lines and dont get them sandy so abrasion is not a huge deal for me, stretch is (im a 240 lb Big Air guy who loves his Loops)......
This is immensely important as most kiters kite somewhere with actual beach. I am in the dead center of the US and still have to contend with beautiful (but abrasive) white sand beaches here. Not to minimize your claim on new North lines, but if North is using the same loose/fuzzy line even at a higher strength, it is not good for the abrasive environments most of us lay out kite lines in.

dracop wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 10:19 pm
........Liros DC-701 and DC-401 are the magic bomb imo. They do need to be waxed every six months though or abrasion will get to them (six mo of near daily usage). My North lines didnt start to wear/get abrasion until 12mo (better aftermarket processing treatment than applying cheap candle wax from walmart). Its 2018, if a manufacturer is still using line with SK-75 fiber technology, dump that crap - SK99 is WAAAAYYYY better than SK-75 for our sport.

I really like the treatment on Q Power in terms of abrasion, just wish they would update with newer fiber core technology to have better strength. If you have a low power application (eg, Foiling), stick with Q Power. For anything requiring lots of breaking strength/stretching resistance, go with Liros is my advice.
What did the lines wear from if your lines are not in contact with sand? Did the lines just wear from looping where they cross? Why wax to prevent abrasive infiltration if you do not kite where abrasives are a problem? Is it for wear when crossed while looping???

And SK-75 is fine for rears, but I agree with you that fronts benefit from the best technology, or technology yet to come.


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